Bujon - Employment Tribunal Help Please

[Bujon]

Re: Assistance advice required on an unusal set of circumstances

OK all, I am in receipt of the ET3 form, and despite a lots of mumbo jumbo (over 60 points of irrelevance in the main), I do have the following few items which need a bit of expert clarity on,I quote.....> Accordingly to the respondent denies that it has acted in breach of claimants contract of employment: further, the respondent denies that any breach, if found, was not fundamental to the claimants contract of employment and did not destroy the relationship of mutual trust and confidence in the manner that the claimant suggests> In the alternative, if the tribunal determine the claimant was constructively dismissed (which is denied), the respondent submits that the dismissal was therefore for some other substantial reason, was reasonable in all circumstances; and was fair in terms of section 98(4) of the ERA.Any thoughts?

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.....> Accordingly to the respondent denies that it has acted in breach of claimants contract of employment: further, the respondent denies that any breach, if found, was not fundamental to the claimants contract of employment and did not destroy the relationship of mutual trust and confidence in the manner that the claimant suggests.

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> In the alternative, if the tribunal determine the claimant was constructively dismissed (which is denied), the respondent submits that the dismissal was therefore for some other substantial reason, was reasonable in all circumstances; and was fair in terms of section 98(4) of the ERA.

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Any thoughts?

[teaboy2]

Re: Assistance advice required on an unusal set of circumstances

OK all, I am in receipt of the ET3 form, and despite a lots of mumbo jumbo (over 60 points of irrelevance in the main), I do have the following few items which need a bit of expert clarity on,I quote.....> Accordingly to the respondent denies that it has acted in breach of claimants contract of employment: further, the respondent denies that any breach, if found, was not fundamental to the claimants contract of employment and did not destroy the relationship of mutual trust and confidence in the manner that the claimant suggests> In the alternative, if the tribunal determine the claimant was constructively dismissed (which is denied), the respondent submits that the dismissal was therefore for some other substantial reason, was reasonable in all circumstances; and was fair in terms of section 98(4) of the ERA.Any thoughts?

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.....> Accordingly to the respondent denies that it has acted in breach of claimants contract of employment: further, the respondent denies that any breach, if found, was not fundamental to the claimants contract of employment and did not destroy the relationship of mutual trust and confidence in the manner that the claimant suggests. - Clearly it did!!

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> In the alternative, if the tribunal determine the claimant was constructively dismissed (which is denied), the respondent submits that the dismissal was therefore for some other substantial reason, was reasonable in all circumstances; and was fair in terms of section 98(4) of the ERA. - Utter ********, there basically saying if you tribunal decided you were constructively dismissed, then it was for another reason other than bullying and harassment etc. Sorry but you resigned precisely because of that, they cant then determine you resigned for other reasons to those you allege and therefore say it was fair dismissal - you didn't even get dismissed as resignation doesn't amount to dismissal!!

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Any thoughts?

There basically saying their failure to protect you did not amount to breach of duty of care or/and mutual trust, when it obviously does, then they are saying if tribunal agrees you were constructively dismissed that the dismissal was for other reasons than those you alleged and therefore dismissal was fair - utter bullshit to be honest and just an attempt to twist and turn things - i.e. wriggle out of it!

section 98 of the ERA refers to whether employer acted fairly in dismissing an employee i.e disciplinary and subsequent dismissal!

[Bujon]

Re: Assistance advice required on an unusal set of circumstances

Teaboy, many thanks! indeed...you should see some of the other garble within the other 60 points!!! It would make your blood boil. I have a Trial Management Discussion scheduled, where I can raise my concerns, and think that given their defence have presented those two little gems as summaries, I can raise as a concern.

[teaboy2]

Re: Assistance advice required on an unusal set of circumstances

It doesn't do any harm to raise any concerns you have, as doing so is what leads to clarification for you!

[ritemaster]

Re: 28 day time limit for ET3 form

It does happen occasionally.

My employer has as good as admitted in the disciplinary that I was treated to a different set of rules to all the other staff in the same job role as me, which is why I had a disciplinary and they never have. When you read through the investigation notes and the disciplinary notes, it is quite easy to spot every time they breach their own disciplinary procedure or ACAS guidelines. They have made it practically impossible for them to show my dismissal was fair. I'm hoping if they cant show it was fair then I wont need to take the stand at all.

[Bujon]

Re: Assistance advice required on an unusal set of circumstances

Update! I have just had my CMD via teleconference and it appears the respondents have 2 witnesses and myself just the 1. And therefore the judge has scheduled a 3 day hearing in 2 months time? Seems quite a long hearing to me??


The Judge said we need to swap evidence and witness statements within 2 weeks, to allow for a thorough review of each others information..... I assume this is to assess the strengths of each others position?

Also not wanting to alarm my timid witness, but will the cross examination purely be on their statement? It won't be the case that they try to deviate from that will they? Equally can I only cross examine their witnesses on their actual statement evidence?

• :tinysmile_cry_t:

[cupidstunt]

Re: Assistance advice required on an unusal set of circumstances

It surprises me why they bother with an ET3, it's not like any respondent is going to say they fully agree with the ET1.

Almost like a template, just enter the allegations made by the claimant and then the respondent just denies it all.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Assistance advice required on an unusal set of circumstances

Update! I have just had my CMD via teleconference and it appears the respondents have 2 witnesses and myself just the 1. And therefore the judge has scheduled a 3 day hearing in 2 months time? Seems quite a long hearing to me??

Three days? :scared:

The Judge said we need to swap evidence and witness statements within 2 weeks, to allow for a thorough review of each others information..... I assume this is to assess the strengths of each others position?

Also not wanting to alarm my timid witness, but will the cross examination purely be on their statement? It won't be the case that they try to deviate from that will they? Equally can I only cross examine their witnesses on their actual statement evidence?

• :tinysmile_cry_t:

Yes, the cross examination is all based around both witness statements, they can't bring something up at the hearing that wasn't mentioned on the WS.

[Trev1234]

Re: Assistance advice required on an unusal set of circumstances

What is the usual amt of days and is there any corresponding significance of this?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Assistance advice required on an unusal set of circumstances

What is the usual amt of days and is there any corresponding significance of this?

It all depends on the issues to be discussed and how many witnesses each side is using. It doesn't look like there are that many in this case which is why I wondered. One thing to bear in mind is that you may well leave the hearing none the wiser, jugment can take a long time to come through. :mmph:

[Bujon]

Re: Assistance advice required on an unusal set of circumstances

Thanks folks, there will be 4 witness statements in all, and with a start time of 10:30 each day, that is possibly why. I'm not sure the perpetrator is going to be happy at me being able to cross examine them!!??

[Bujon]

Witness Statement Detailed or not so much?

As my ET approaches fast I have a couple of days to produce and swap my witness statements. I am wondering how much detail to put into this? I am simply relying on my emailed evidence as a reaction to each of 5 separate incidents to prove balance of probabilities.

i.e. the fact that I reacted in the way that I did at the time is proof enough.


Any thoughts??


This is a bullying and harassment case and a couple of breach of contracts is the legal angle...wasn't sure whether I should mention my "tact" or not?

[judgemental24]

Re: Witness Statement Detailed or not so much?

Your witness statement as a whole should be no longer han an A4 Sheet if at all possible

You need to make the events run in order as the paragraphs progress in the order the events happened. Keep those paragraphs short

Do not waffle, less is more

Each email should link to another as an example and letters/telephone calls received

Remember to sign as a statement of truth

Make sure you have copies of those emails, letters etc, one to the respondent, one to the court, one for yourself in the court bundle

[nemesis45]

Re: Witness Statement Detailed or not so much?

As my ET approaches fast I have a couple of days to produce and swap my witness statements. I am wondering how much detail to put into this? I am simply relying on my emailed evidence as a reaction to each of 5 separate incidents to prove balance of probabilities.

i.e. the fact that I reacted in the way that I did at the time is proof enough.


Any thoughts??


This is a bullying and harassment case and a couple of breach of contracts is the legal angle...wasn't sure whether I should mention my "tact" or not?

Do have the respondents WS so you can actively responds to their statements.

nem

[judgemental24]

Re: Witness Statement Detailed or not so much?

Looks to me they have agreed to do a sequential exchange of witness statements/court bundle