Disaplinary taken almost 2 years

[matt3942]

Re: Disaplinary taken almost 2 years

[MENTION=48758]stevemLS[/MENTION] - thank you for your comment but you've wrongly assumed that I'm not aware of the details of the alleged misconduct - I am. I am also aware that while others have been dismissed for using the same practice, theirs was to a much greater extent.

Thanks [MENTION=19071]teaboy2[/MENTION] - I completely agree with you.

- Matt

[Whoppery6k]

Re: Disaplinary taken almost 2 years

@stevemLS - thank you for your comment but you've wrongly assumed that I'm not aware of the details of the alleged misconduct - I am. I am also aware that while others have been dismissed for using the same practice, theirs was to a much greater extent.

Thanks @teaboy2 - I completely agree with you.

- Matt

Hi matt, thank you so much for your letter... I will add a few small bits to it if that's ok but thank you so much for taking the time to write that for me, my disciplinary is 6 days away and I really don't know which way it's going to go. To be honest I would just be happy to keep my job.
I just don't see how they can dismiss others and not my self for the same offence

[teaboy2]

Re: Disaplinary taken almost 2 years

I'd be surprised if they didn't call of the disciplinary once they have considered the content of the letter. Though i'd like to know what you added, mainly in the hope you didn't say anything that may cause yourself detriment - Its hard to not say it how it is, when worked up but sometimes it makes things worse than it does help the situation. I'm probably the worse for being aggressive with letters, but i usually back it up with points or law (practical or if i feel like spicing it up a bit and giving them something to think about even more i.e. theoretical arguments on points of law, confuses the hell out of them probably) or legislation, but others don't. Basically don't want you to have added anything that could make it worse for you!

[Whoppery6k]

Re: Disaplinary taken almost 2 years

I'd be surprised if they didn't call of the disciplinary once they have considered the content of the letter. Though i'd like to know what you added, mainly in the hope you didn't say anything that may cause yourself detriment - Its hard to not say it how it is, when worked up but sometimes it makes things worse than it does help the situation. I'm probably the worse for being aggressive with letters, but i usually back it up with points or law (practical or if i feel like spicing it up a bit and giving them something to think about even more i.e. theoretical arguments on points of law, confuses the hell out of them probably) or legislation, but others don't. Basically don't want you to have added anything that could make it worse for you!

point 2 addresses the accusation that was drawn up in my disciplinary meeting.
But the original accusation was that I completed the sales with out the customer consent (explained in my pm)
i think that's the one that may get me

[matt3942]

Re: Disaplinary taken almost 2 years

Hi [MENTION=68319]Whoppery6k[/MENTION]

Of course you may amend the letter as you see fit. You may wish to add more detail to point 2 - I kept it slightly vague as I know you didn't want to share the full details on here. Even though they have dismissed others for completing sales without the customer present, from what you've told me that was customary practice, and you have evidence from your employer saying that practice is okay, so hopefully your employer will drop the case against you. You may end up with a written warning and having to retrain but if you get to keep your job so be it.

Once they receive the grievance letter the disciplinary process should stop so it's important to get it in before your disciplinary meeting. You should then be invited to attend a grievance meeting where you will be able to voice your issues (as per the letter). The employer will then either drop the case or proceed with the disciplinary process.

- Mat

[teaboy2]

Re: Disaplinary taken almost 2 years

point 2 addresses the accusation that was drawn up in my disciplinary meeting.
But the original accusation was that I completed the sales with out the customer consent (explained in my pm)
i think that's the one that may get me

I never actually received a PM from you giving me any details as to the allegation itself. Though my business is sales based, and so long as the customer gave you their card details or have a credit account with you and they placed an order, then your entitled to take card payments or close the sale when they are not present! Obviously since i didn't get the PM, i don't know the full details around the allegation, so don't take what i said as being accurate in regards to your circumstances!

[Whoppery6k]

Re: Disaplinary taken almost 2 years

I'd be surprised if they didn't call of the disciplinary once they have considered the content of the letter. Though i'd like to know what you added, mainly in the hope you didn't say anything that may cause yourself detriment - Its hard to not say it how it is, when worked up but sometimes it makes things worse than it does help the situation. I'm probably the worse for being aggressive with letters, but i usually back it up with points or law (practical or if i feel like spicing it up a bit and giving them something to think about even more i.e. theoretical arguments on points of law, confuses the hell out of them probably) or legislation, but others don't. Basically don't want you to have added anything that could make it worse for you!

hi Matt.
No the document I have relates to the 2nd accusation. Of processing sales over the phone with the customers consent. Apparently this is not ok but my document shows it is

the original accusation is that I processed sales with out there consent, that the evidence just shows 4 sales in a very sort time... This they believe is enough to show I retained details using a company online dairy and put them on to achieve targets.
but I was all ready though target and these upgrades carry no financial gain

teaboy I will pm you the details sorry thought I had

[Whoppery6k]

Re: Disaplinary taken almost 2 years

Please don't worry about being vague, I'm in a place where I can't really worry about what people think.
i just need to give my self as much of a chance as possible

[matt3942]

Re: Disaplinary taken almost 2 years

hi Matt.
No the document I have relates to the 2nd accusation. Of processing sales over the phone with the customers consent. Apparently this is not ok but my document shows it is

the original accusation is that I processed sales with out there consent, that the evidence just shows 4 sales in a very sort time... This they believe is enough to show I retained details using a company online dairy and put them on to achieve targets.
but I was all ready though target and these upgrades carry no financial gain

TBH I'm not sure how the second allegation differs from the first - you processed sales without the customers' consent. Is it possible to process 4 sales in the same short time with customers' consent?

- Matt

[teaboy2]

Re: Disaplinary taken almost 2 years

Have read your PM yet [MENTION=68319]Whoppery6k[/MENTION] - If the customer gave you the card details other the phone, including the security code on the back and agreed to the sale, then that's consent.

If your able to access customer card details to manually put through sales, then the company is in breach of the data protection act for failing to secure the customers card details! Which also puts them in breach of the card companies PCI DSS compliance program!

Were the customers happy with the sales, did they complain about not authorising such sales, did they make charge backs via section 75A of the consumer credit act or via their bank for Debit Card transactions? If answer is no then you should ask the employer how or on what grounds you closed the sale without authorisation from the customer!

[Whoppery6k]

Re: Disaplinary taken almost 2 years

Have read your PM yet @Whoppery6k - If the customer gave you the card details other the phone, including the security code on the back and agreed to the sale, then that's consent.

If your able to access customer card details to manually put through sales, then the company is in breach of the data protection act for failing to secure the customers card details! Which also puts them in breach of the card companies PCI DSS compliance program!

Were the customers happy with the sales, did they complain about not authorising such sales, did they make charge backs via section 75A of the consumer credit act or via their bank for Debit Card transactions? If answer is no then you should ask the employer how or on what grounds you closed the sale without authorisation from the customer!

In relation to the first accusation the company is implying that I have used data freely available to target customer accounts to add free products to there current service they receive from us so I can hit sales targets
they are implying the only way I could have achieved these sales in such a short space of time is that I used company data of my previous customers to add these services with out telling the customer I was doing so.
This was not the case but I understand how they can come to conclusion

in relation to there 2nd accusation. The company no longer allows us to process upgrading customers over the phone as we can not confirm it's the same person we spoke to and need id
but I have a company document issued 9 weeks ago informing us how to process sales over the phone and how we should input the data. It mentions inputting data to a system that is only used for upgrading customers and no other use.



Thank you for taking so much time with this matter

[teaboy2]

Re: Disaplinary taken almost 2 years

In relation to the first accusation the company is implying that I have used data freely available to target customer accounts to add free products to there current service they receive from us so I can hit sales targets
they are implying the only way I could have achieved these sales in such a short space of time is that I used company data of my previous customers to add these services with out telling the customer I was doing so.
This was not the case but I understand how they can come to conclusion

YOu wouldn't need customer permission for card transactions for giving free products/bonuses to them - As you wouldn't need their card details or to process their cards! Though i can see how the company may see an employee giving away a lot of freebies as abusing the process. I don't see how giving freebies would effect your sales target, unless the target was based on quantity of sales and not the value of the sales?! Which is stupid really as sales targets are meant to boost profits by encouraging employees to hit them to be eligible for a bonus of increased commission percentage of sales made after sales target is hit!

in relation to there 2nd accusation. The company no longer allows us to process upgrading customers over the phone as we can not confirm it's the same person we spoke to and need id
but I have a company document issued 9 weeks ago informing us how to process sales over the phone and how we should input the data. It mentions inputting data to a system that is only used for upgrading customers and no other use.

So one hand is saying you can't yet the other hand, which is the official company documented policy (as that's what the document will be based off) is telling you you can! Pot calling kettle black?!

As for not being allowed to take payments over the phone as you no way of knowing if they are the same person you spoke to the first time. Well that's stupid, how do you know the person you spoke to the first time was the authorised card holder?? They don't, its impossible to know! And by requesting ID they are in fact hurting their own bottom line, as customers want to make simple easy transactions, they don't want to have to go do a photo copy of their driving license, passport, then email it to you and wait for you to phone them back so you can take card payment - They got better things to be doing with their time. I can't imagine how low percentage of returning custom is but i bet its less than 25%. If they got rid of that stupid policy, the returning custom rate would be over 75% - There literally giving their customers away to their competitors which such stupid policy!!


Thank you for taking so much time with this matter

Certainly use the document telling you you can do it that way and point out if that was not the case then why give you documents telling you different to what they say is company policy. Point out to them, if its says its ok in the document then its ok per company policy as clearly the document is based on company policy.

[Whoppery6k]

Re: Disaplinary taken almost 2 years

Well even with my letter, the company documents the decided to dismiss me
Apparently it did not make a difference.
Brings to and end 6 years at the company

[matt3942]

Re: Disaplinary taken almost 2 years

[MENTION=68319]Whoppery6k[/MENTION]

That's disappointing. Would you like to appeal against your dismissal?

- Matt

[Whoppery6k]

Re: Disaplinary taken almost 2 years

@Whoppery6k

That's disappointing. Would you like to appeal against your dismissal?

- Matt

Yes i I believe I would, I'm completely devastated. I have worked so hard for the company.
I just want to email the directors and let them know exactly what I think. But it's a huge company and it would just end up getting deleted.