Help - pregnant and suspended for possible gross misconduct

[eyh]

Re: Help - pregnant and suspended for possible gross misconduct
Yes I appealed, I now have the appeal hearing on Friday. Will this go over everything again or just my reasons for appeal?

[matt3942]

Re: Help - pregnant and suspended for possible gross misconduct

Hi [MENTION=66743]eyh[/MENTION]

That's good news. I imagine they'll only look at the grounds of your appeal so focus on that.

Do let us know what the outcome is.

- Matt

[matt3942]

Re: Help - pregnant and suspended for possible gross misconduct

[MENTION=66743]eyh[/MENTION]

Just to make sure - you were made aware of your right to be accompanied? Do you know who will be present and who is chairing the hearing?

- Matt

[eyh]

Re: Help - pregnant and suspended for possible gross misconduct

Yes they told me I can be accompanied. It is being chaired by a different manager. I haven't been told of anyone else attending (I.e. hr).

[matt3942]

Re: Help - pregnant and suspended for possible gross misconduct

That's great [MENTION=66743]eyh[/MENTION] - I look forward to hearing how it went.

- Matt

[eyh]

Re: Help - pregnant and suspended for possible gross misconduct

Urgghh this morning was as awful as expected. Didn't go over everything thankfully, and it was only around an hour and a quarter.

I had to go over my appeal reasons, he was in the meeting (which I hadn't been made aware of) as well as the hr manager (again, I wasn't told).

They pretty much discounted the pregnancy reason, he said I'm lying that he threatened to extend my probation!!!! I did have an email back to then which was to him questioning why it's extended etc. But they said that there was no suggestion of pregnancy in that email .

They said the investigation had been carried out by the IT guy, i.e. recovering emails. But didn't comment on his involvement in the rest.

They then asked my boss for his version of events, which he went on to say I basically I had 'corrupted' my colleague who was newer in the company, that I had obviously been trying to detriment the company etc. And that I was disruptive and disrespectful, amongst other things.

I reiterated the stress I was under and that nothing like this has clearly happened before. Good record. Etc. But they said the biggest issue is nature of the comments, and how offensive they were. In all honesty I don't feel what I've said to be that bad! They seemed to be trying to say that my history bears no relevance, but I tried to highlight that (1) it clearly hadn't effected my work and (2) it is obviously out of character.

I also said that I was caught up in ex colleague's negativity, and that she clearly said worse than me. That was acknowledged in a sense by the chair saying he noticed she started most of the comments etc. But he said I shouldn't have got involved I should have stepped away.

I really can't see it changing anything. It was horrible I was practically sat next to him, I didn't even think he'd be there!

[teaboy2]

Re: Help - pregnant and suspended for possible gross misconduct

He should not have been present at the appeal hearing either

Well even if it doesn't change the outcome - The fact is you were unfairly dismissed, as he should never have chaired the disciplinary. Did they comment regarding the impartiality of him being the chair of the disciplinary meetings and now appeal hearing too?

As for sexual discrimination, its the action that matters i.e. unfavorable/unfair treatment. If he'd not be aware of your pregnancy would he have extended your probationary period? Probably not! So its irrelevant if sexual or preganancy is mentioned in the email or not. Its the ACT itself that matters! Theres direct in your face discrimination and then theirs the indirect behind your back or closed doors discrimination!

[eyh]

Re: Help - pregnant and suspended for possible gross misconduct

Oh and also, he was sat in the meeting room both before and after the hearing with the 'impartial' others. why did he need to be there?? They told me he was in the appeal hearing to give his version of events... If that's the case he shouldn't have been discussing anything before or after surely?

- - - Updated - - -

They didn't comment about him chairing the disciplinary meeting or that he made the decision to terminate my contact. He didn't chair the appeal, was just present and telling his side of things.

It was very intimidating and uncomfortable

[teaboy2]

Re: Help - pregnant and suspended for possible gross misconduct

He should not of been there full stop!

I'm surprised they made no comment on the impartiality issue with him being chair or the disciplinary meeting.

Nothing we can do now though till we get their final decision regarding the appeal outcome. But be prepared to issue a ET1 claim! You will need to contact ACAS and go through them to make the ET claim, but don't worry we will help you every step of the way!

[eyh]

Re: Help - pregnant and suspended for possible gross misconduct

Thanks! Do you think I've got a case for unfair dismissal?

The fact they say he was there to tell his story, is that rubbish?? I guess he's just telling them his interpretation of the evidence and the manager hearing the appeal should be making up their own mind after reviewing evidence?

Unless I can find a no win no fee type of solicitor, not site I'll afford ET costs. But I know ACAS have a first stage 'early conciliation' to go through anyway.

Do you think he'd back down and just pay me off?

[teaboy2]

Re: Help - pregnant and suspended for possible gross misconduct

Thanks! Do you think I've got a case for unfair dismissal?

Yes as the process of the disciplinary was not impartial, he was the alleged victim of your comments, therefore the process was biased from the start to the finish, when it should be impartial throughout!

The fact they say he was there to tell his story, is that rubbish?? I guess he's just telling them his interpretation of the evidence and the manager hearing the appeal should be making up their own mind after reviewing evidence?

Yes the reason for him being there is complete rubbish, the appeal process should have had a follow up investigation based on the issues you raised in the appeal. The manager should have been interviewed and a statement taken off him to be presented to you and later discussed at the appeal hearing. Only person that should have been present at the appeal hearing would be you, person you selected to accompanying you, chair, and a note taker (both chair an note taker should impartial too).

Write to them requesting copies of all witness statements, investigation notes off both original disciplinary and appeal investigations, and notes for all investigation, disciplinary and appeal hearing/meetings notes. Also inform them you intend to begin proceedings for unfair dismissal against them and sexual discrimination! Title the letter Formal Pre-Action request for copies of documents/notes. Also request copies of the emails where alleged comments were made and of all other evidence referred to during the investigation, disciplinary and appeal process/hearings.

Unless I can find a no win no fee type of solicitor, not site I'll afford ET costs. But I know ACAS have a first stage 'early conciliation' to go through anyway.

Yes go through ACAS - Costs are not that much to be honest and the time spent during conciliation/mediation process will give you time to save for the cost of issuing your claim. Plus with ACAS involved there's a chance it may not have to go to tribunal as the employer may well realise its a losing battle and offer you a pre-action settlement agreement which may include your job being given back to you as well as a financial compensatory sum!

Do you think he'd back down and just pay me off?

Its hard to say, as its hard to judge how dumb and stupid people are or how clever and cocky they think they are when i have not met them in person. But if hes of reasonable mind and listens to advice of his solicitors (if they are any good that is as not all are up to it when it comes to employment laws), it is possible he will back down and make a settlement agreement with you. which i think you should push for actually as i doubt you'd want to go back their to work anyway. But you'd want the equivalent of a year salary if you go for settlement. If he refuses and you win at tribunal the tribunal award will probably be higher, especially if you win the sexual discrimination claim part as well as unfair dismissal!

[matt3942]

Re: Help - pregnant and suspended for possible gross misconduct

I'm inclined to agree with [MENTION=19071]teaboy2[/MENTION] - I think discrimination because of pregnancy was always a long shot but the whole process does seem to have been prejudiced by your line manager's presence. Let's assume your appeal will be rejected - you should contact ACAS with a view to bringing a claim for unfair dismissal.

- Matt

[teaboy2]

Re: Help - pregnant and suspended for possible gross misconduct

Agreed [MENTION=67649]matt3942[/MENTION] - If it had just been sexual discrimination i would probably advise to leave it. But it was clear from the start when OP was told the Manager who the comments were made against was doing the investigation (i doubt the IT guy got the witness statements), disciplinary hearing that she would have a clear case for unfair dismissal which sexual discrimination could be added to as a secondary claim! So whilst the sexual discrimination on its own would be hard to prove, the fact the core reason the disciplinary was unfair was due to the Manager and the fact the believe of sexual discrimination was from himself, will help to sway the tribunal on the basis that the manager had it in for her right from the start of her first pregnancy, and thats not forgetting the made up harassment allegation he accused the OP off in regards to comments about another colleague an allegation that was not part of any grievance procedure instigated by the alleged victim of the alleged harassment! And on top of everything else he threatened to sue the OP for defamation. All that goes to show hes true character and true intentions i.e. had it in for her from the start!