Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

[stevemLS]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

It is not a breach of the DPA - I am assuming the OP does not maintain records for her personal use although, unless I have missed it we don't know how she came to have knowledge that this former colleague was "assisting" the police.

What it will be characterised is use of the companies email system for, potentially malicious, gossiping purposes.

The test at the ET is whether the sanction is within the range of sanctions that a reasonable employer could impose. I would say that there is an argument to be made there if it is indeed a single act of email misuse passing on factual information.

[Magna]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

Hi stevemLS

You are correct that I do not maintain personnel records for my use. I was informed by my line manager re. the colleague assisting with police enquiries. HR were not present when I was informed and no NDA was required. I cannot specifically remember being told the information was confidential - just that those who needed to know were aware. However, due to the nature of the information, I assumed that the information was not for general circulation.

I was asked by a management member to contact the ex-colleague, and as this was a work social event, the use of work email was confirmed as acceptable. The disciplinary accepted that my sharing of the information was not malicious, although any 'assumed' motivation has never been discussed.

The sanction was based on breach of confidentiality and even though asked, no further 'explanation' has been offered. Based on interpreting the staff handbook, I have got to assume this breach relates to personal information. Therefore the dismissal is due to my conduct (quote from respondents solicitor).

Apart from determining whether the sanction is within the range of sanctions that a reasonable employer could impose, there is also the point regarding consistency in applying sanctions. I mentioned previously NDA's which are used regularly within the company - to the extent that my representative for the disciplinary had to sign one before I was permitted to talk to him regarding my case. Therefore I would expect NDAs to be used to ensure confidentiality of information and to be upheld when required - however HR do not consistency apply sanction when this is breached and appear to 'treat' confidential information differently (sometimes its NDA'd, sometimes not).

That said, it was a stupid mistake to make,

[stevemLS]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

Hi Magna

That puts a different complexion on it. I fail to see why your line manager felt it necessary to inform you that an ex-colleague was helping the police. Equally, in this context it COULD be a breach of the DPA - I had formed the impression that you had got the information from other than your employer.

Equally, I don't quite see why you thought it necessary to tell a current colleague the information, they could have missed the "do" for any number of reasons. I am struggling to see it as anything other than gossip. (Sorry but offered thoughts are no use to anyone if they are not honest)

As I understand ET procedure, they are not interested in who may have suffered what disciplinary sanction for whatever it may be in your company - that would require the Tribunal to spend days looking at the facts of each individual case to ensure they were comparing like with like - not every breach of confidentiality is the same - and they simply can't do that. They consider the range of sanctions that the [as with many things in law] reasonable employer could have imposed.

I would have thought you will be pleading that as your line manager asked to to arrange for your ex-colleague to be invited to this do, you assumed that you were also required to explain his non-attendance and gave a straightforward explanation to your colleague.

I appreciate it may be impossible, but much will revolve around the exact content of the email you sent about the non attendance - if you have it I think you can send it to site admin and ask them to PM it to me. I can't imagine it would be appropriate to post it up.

Are you able to say what industry sector you work in, it sounds most odd with NDAs flying round seemingly like confetti - equally however, their extensive use of them will assist in your case given that there wasn't one here. I think it is utterly outrageous that your representative was expected to sign one.

Steve

[Magna]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

Hi Steve,

I was working for a Retailer (all my previous experience had been in financial Services). I am informed that the police are still investigating and therefore I am not at liberty to share information. Although I did not pass on information regarding what the investigation related to, my ex-colleague was trying to guess. I did not respond, but was aware that the ex-colleague was trying to contact my line manager on his mobile.

The ex-colleague and the colleague assisting police had remained in touch following the change in jobs, and it was this that triggered my mail response. If the ex-colleague had attended, he would have wondered where our mutual colleague was. I was more concerned about 'protecting' the social event as a) I was responsible for organizing and b) the event was for my line manager who had been asked to resign - hence why it was a 'select' event. A new manager was not in situ and the original communication re the colleague assisting police had been over a month previous. It was another manager who requested the invite be extended to the ex-colleague.

Re. being informed by my line manager about the colleague assisting police - I assume this was an HR decision. I have no idea who was informed, but assume it was the department and senior managers. The director that took my disciplinary repeatedly informed me that he knew more about what had occurred than I did. I was on annual leave at the time and therefore I and one other were updated on our return. Apparently HR were present at the original notification but not at the later update that I attended. I am guessing the absence of the work colleague would have been noticed and therefore the decision was made to inform.

My disciplinary letters all refer to the fact that I should have known better, however post my appeal I was made aware that the department had been called together by HR and Legal to 'remind' them of confidentiality within an hour or two of my suspension.

It was this action, along with using the legal dept. of the company my ex-colleague moved to question him, refusing to interview the other attendee at the line manager's meeting I attended to confirm what was said, or interviewing either my line manager or the manager who requested the invite to the ex-colleague that prompted me to take the route that I have. I realize that the sanction cannot be changed by the ET, but inaccurate investigatory notes and the non-presentation of the appeal notes may help my case?

Magna

[stevemLS]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

Yes, in my view, to the last part of your question - but I am afraid the reaches of what is possible in hypothetical situations have been reached.

Good luck

[Room101]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

I was also once sacked for gross misconduct, from a major financial in$titution. No big loss, I can assure you a lot of people get sacked. ... there are things I also don't want to go into detail on a public forum.

I face a similar outcome to Magna, but for a different reason, I see that my employer has the terms they need to remove me and call it a GM rather than just the stupid lapse of concentration I first saw it as.

I'm looking at the end of both a 30 year financial services career and all prospects of getting another job anywhere doing anything for anyone. You shared that you were also once sacked for gross misconduct in financial services and that it's no big loss. Any advice will be gratefully received. Tried to PM you on this but you're so popular that your inbox is full.

[leclerc]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

I face a similar outcome to Magna, but for a different reason, I see that my employer has the terms they need to remove me and call it a GM rather than just the stupid lapse of concentration I first saw it as.

I'm looking at the end of both a 30 year financial services career and all prospects of getting another job anywhere doing anything for anyone. You shared that you were also once sacked for gross misconduct in financial services and that it's no big loss. Any advice will be gratefully received. Tried to PM you on this but you're so popular that your inbox is full.

You only lose the ability to find a job within Financial Services but that all depends on the presentation of how you lost your job and not the fact that you lost your job.

Ultimately, finding another job means you have to remain positive and to basically stalk the agencies both online and offline and apply for jobs you can do but you have to know how you are going to present your dismissal otherwise they don't see past that issue

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

I'm looking at the end of both a 30 year financial services career and all prospects of getting another job anywhere doing anything for anyone. You shared that you were also once sacked for gross misconduct in financial services and that it's no big loss. Any advice will be gratefully received. Tried to PM you on this but you're so popular that your inbox is full.

Have just replied. :typing:

Apologies for that, I tend not to press the [DELETE] button very often, same happens with my emails, mailbox always full! :tinysmile_cry_t: