Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

[Magna]

I have been dismissed for gross misconduct and lost my appeal, therefore following discussion with a solicitor, I have been progressing down the employment tribunal route. It is not what I wanted to do, it has been extremely stressful and I feel that my life has been in limbo for several months. I think that what I am looking for is a sanity check - as the respondents solicitor has said that I have no prospect of success and unless I stop the ET process they will be applying for me to pay all their legal defense costs. I have 7 days ( actually 7 days from the date of the letter which means 5 days as I received this letter today) - and I assume this is not working days.

The reason that I have been progressing is because I have never denied what I did, but wanted the company to review the sanction. There was no consideration of this throughout the disciplinary process. The ET will not change this sanction, but I was hoping for a 'neutral' reference to give me a chance of getting a job again.

What did I do? I informed an ex-colleague who was invited to attend a 'select' work social event that a team member we both used to work with would not be at the event as they were assisting police with enquiries. Why - because I was hoping that would reduce the likelihood of the person turning up and asking awkward questions, and there was no guarantee that other attendees would not respond to queries. Retrospectively, I should have just said the person was not around. I did not inform any other attendees, but I was aware that the two had remained in contact post the ex-colleague leaving. This was determined as being a breach of confidentiality and an act of gross misconduct.
I honestly meant no harm, and was more conscious of preserving the evening do. The disciplinary recognized that I was not being malicious.

It did not occur to me that the information I shared was confidential. Company confidential information I recognize and personal information that should not be shared - it just did not occur to me that this was confidential. The exchange was done via email, and I copied the email exchange to my line manager. It was my line manager who informed HR by forwarding my email to them.

When I have shared my reason for leaving my last employment with HR professionals during interviews, they have stated that the sanction was harsh, but their internal processes would not allow the hiring of someone who had been dismissed for gross misconduct.

So, do I succumb to the pressure and draw a line under all this (knowing that I am unlikely to work again), or do I see this through? Unfortunately, I am a widow with children, therefore 'retiring' is not really an option, I have a mortgage to pay and my savings are running out.

I would really appreciate the views of the readers of this site....

[leclerc]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

My personal opinion is that it is a breach of the Data Protection Act UNLESS it is already in the public domain, ie if there was a police arrest reported in the press, etc etc,

For me, what you have done is to tell someone who is no longer part of the company information that is not already public knowledge. I think it was foolish and I think you are bit a little stupid to simply be blunt in what you were dismissed for. I personally believe you need to be able to state a version of events that fits the crime, ie that you made a poor judgement call and whilst you may have apologised for doing so, the company believed that it was GM. If you are telling them the truth in interviews, then I wouldn't hire you either because how you may be explaining it to them is negatively.

(I was sacked for GM from a company as well btw but I felt that the sanction was correct).

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

I have been dismissed for gross misconduct and lost my appeal, therefore following discussion with a solicitor, I have been progressing down the employment tribunal route. It is not what I wanted to do, it has been extremely stressful and I feel that my life has been in limbo for several months. I think that what I am looking for is a sanity check - as the respondents solicitor has said that I have no prospect of success and unless I stop the ET process they will be applying for me to pay all their legal defense costs. I have 7 days ( actually 7 days from the date of the letter which means 5 days as I received this letter today) - and I assume this is not working days.

This should be your main cause for concern when it comes to making a decision whether to carry on with the claim or not. Legal costs can easily mount up and run into thousands, especially if the other side are a large company using expensive solicitors who, in some cases, charge upwards of Ł1000/hr! :scared:

If the ET believes your case had no merit to start with, they could award costs to the other side.

In this case it's THEIR solicitor who is saying this, very likely for the purpose of scaring you into withdrawing your claim. Have you got advice or spoken to anyone about your case? Did you go through ACAS in the first instance?

The reason that I have been progressing is because I have never denied what I did, but wanted the company to review the sanction. There was no consideration of this throughout the disciplinary process. The ET will not change this sanction, but I was hoping for a 'neutral' reference to give me a chance of getting a job again.

Presumably you are suing them for unfair dismissal. Once you've been sacked, the ET can't reverse the process and let you go back to work and face a lesser sanction. They can only award you compensation if you win. What you could do is to try and reach an agreement with your ex-employers with regards to the reference in exchange for dropping the unfair dismissal claim. Businesses are run for money, not to destroy people's lives. It will cost them money to defend at the tribunal and there's no guarantee that costs will be awarded in their favour. If you just ask for a reference and no money as a settlement, they may well agree. :thumb:

[righty]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

It really would help if you could give details of your job, the firm and whether or not you assumed the information was already known to your work colleagues AND most important why is this person 'helping the police'???

If there's a problem disclosing the info on what is a public forum you could ask the admin (Kati, Ame) to transfer your thread to a private one

[Magna]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

Thanks for the response. The 'assisting with police enquiries' was publicized nationally, but without names. I have never mentioned what this was in connection with - just that the individual would not be there (when the colleague would have expected to see him). The 'team', which was part of a department, had consisted of three members and a manager - the ex-college, the absent colleague and me, hence why the absence was likely to be noticed. Most of the others attending were aware (but not all), as they had been informed by HR. I was responsible for organizing the event, which was someone else's leaving do.
I did not make contact with the ex-colleague to share the information, but to extend the invite on request of management. It was only when the invitee started to ask questions did I respond. The argument from the respondent is that my information enabled the ex-colleague to ask a more specific question, even though I had said that I knew no details and did not respond to the specific question.
And yes, a few minutes of madness has ruined a 34+ year career which had previously been unblemished.

[Magna]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

FlamingParrot,

I appreciate your response. It no doubt is a 'standard' scare tactic. I believe that the statistics for a successful claim by the respondent for costs is low, but if I am perceived as being unreasonable for continuing, I definitely could be hit by mine and their costs. I did discuss with a solicitor before going down the ET route, as there is cost throughout the process, and was advised to proceed.

My appeal was based on me asking for the sanction to be reviewed, re-stating the circumstances and begging for the opportunity to prove that I was trustworthy. I understand the possible outcomes of the ET, but I am now aware that even a commitment to provide me with a neutral reference does not mean that the HR department will not say that I was dismissed and they would not employ me again. That being said, that has not been offered. I did go through ACAS conciliation, but the legal department of the respondent company just said that there was nothing to discuss.

I made a mistake, but in this case there are no second chances............

[Magna]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

There is a problem disclosing the information - I have not discussed with anyone except my solicitor. One of the reasons for this is that I feel that what I did should not become 'linked' to the event the police are/ were involved with. To be honest, as there was over a month gap between my act of stupidity and the police enquiry, it was not something at the forefront of my thinking. It was not discussed and I figured that it was 'resolved'. I had other things on my mind which I considered to be more important - probably why I did not give my email exchange the attention that I should have.

I did not deal with personal information as part of my role, but understand confidentiality, risk, impact and mitigations.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

I did not make contact with the ex-colleague to share the information, but to extend the invite on request of management. It was only when the invitee started to ask questions did I respond. The argument from the respondent is that my information enabled the ex-colleague to ask a more specific question, even though I had said that I knew no details and did not respond to the specific question.
And yes, a few minutes of madness has ruined a 34+ year career which had previously been unblemished.

FlamingParrot,

My appeal was based on me asking for the sanction to be reviewed, re-stating the circumstances and begging for the opportunity to prove that I was trustworthy. I understand the possible outcomes of the ET, but I am now aware that even a commitment to provide me with a neutral reference does not mean that the HR department will not say that I was dismissed and they would not employ me again. That being said, that has not been offered. I did go through ACAS conciliation, but the legal department of the respondent company just said that there was nothing to discuss.

I made a mistake, but in this case there are no second chances............

No necessarily. I was also once sacked for gross misconduct, from a major financial in$titution. No big loss, I can assure you a lot of people get sacked. I'll PM you because there are things I also don't want to go into detail on a public forum, speaking of confidentiality and all that.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

FlamingParrot,

I appreciate your response. It no doubt is a 'standard' scare tactic. I believe that the statistics for a successful claim by the respondent for costs is low, but if I am perceived as being unreasonable for continuing, I definitely could be hit by mine and their costs. I did discuss with a solicitor before going down the ET route, as there is cost throughout the process, and was advised to proceed.

Indeed it doesn't happen often but it does happen, there was a poster here earlier in the year who'd been awarded several thousand against them by the ET.

My appeal was based on me asking for the sanction to be reviewed, re-stating the circumstances and begging for the opportunity to prove that I was trustworthy. I understand the possible outcomes of the ET, but I am now aware that even a commitment to provide me with a neutral reference does not mean that the HR department will not say that I was dismissed and they would not employ me again. That being said, that has not been offered.

If this is drawn up as a proper agreement they have to stick to it. I once had a compromise agreement that included a small settlement and an agreed reference, which I typed myself. It was brokered through ACAS and valid for 5 years which is the normal period for references to be requested. It may not have been offered but you can always ask. If references are your major concern, why not put it forward? The idea of going to the ET is to get financial compensation (provided you win, of course). :wof:

I did go through ACAS conciliation, but the legal department of the respondent company just said that there was nothing to discuss.

Ah, so they refused to conciliate. They may have been calling your bluff to see if you went all the way to the ET.

[leclerc]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

I will go into detail over my sacking FP as it's all over the forum anyway .

I worked for NatWest Bank for 10 years and got sacked for leaking information the press, something I do NOT regret. I no longer work in financial services. However, Magna, what you are describing above is a mistake you made that cost you your job. That is the thing you focus on in interviews, not the specific details of the case but that you told a former colleague something that you felt was fine, evening CC'ing it with the Line Manager but was later told that it was a breach of the rules and was sacked as a result. My gut feeling based solely on the fact that you told the former colleague that the person was helping police with inquiries, is an act of GM. If their name had appeared in the press in relation to the issue then you were not in breach of GM because you were quoting something already within the public domain.

I do empathise with your situation but I do think that the sacking on the basic facts we have above was justified. The issue will be on procedure now and whether they followed the disciplinary process to the letter of the law. If they did, then whilst the sacking is right ie you would not be back to working there, there maybe a compensatory issue at hand in relation to failure to follow procedure.

[righty]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

I think the OP's difficulty will lay with not the written reference but when a prospective employer ask why they left their last job That than becomes the problem do you tell them truthfully or do you lie and if the latter what happens if they find out they've been misled they may sack you and seek damages for what would be a serious misconduct.

I suggest that even after a successful ET you'll still have to tell prospective employers what happened You will of course be able to say their accusations have been dismissed by an ET but even that presents a problem in that they may consider that the OP is a trouble maker and that they don't want to be taken to an ET therefore better not employe the OP on the basis of 'why take the risk'

[leclerc]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

Righty, there are hard facts ie breach of Data Protection Act and there is your story which incorporates that story.

One version: I told a mate of mine who used to work for us that another existing colleague that we both knew of, was helping police with their enquiries.

Another version: I told a former colleague, who was coming to a work do, that a mutual colleague was helping police with their enquires. I thought they knew and CC'd my line manager into the email. I was wrong and made a mistake which they classed as Gross Misconduct and sacked me.

Which version should the OP say?

[righty]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

Righty, there are hard facts ie breach of Data Protection Act and there is your story which incorporates that story.

One version: I told a mate of mine who used to work for us that another existing colleague that we both knew of, was helping

Another version: I told a former colleague, who was coming to a work do, that a mutual colleague was helping police with their enquires. I thought they knew and CC'd my line manager into the email. I was wrong and made a mistake which they classed as Gross Misconduct and sacked me.

Which version should the OP say?

Best to tell the truth otherwise the OP will be living with the thought that any day now the current employer will find out & be peed orf that the OP didn't tell them

[leclerc]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

Best to tell the truth otherwise the OP will be living with the thought that any day now the current employer will find out & be peed orf that the OP didn't tell them

Both of the versions I gave are equally true, it's just the manner in which you tell it that counts

[righty]

Re: Gross misconduct dismissal - urgent help

Ok then the latter