Unlawful deductions even though i signed?

[teaboy2]

Re: Unlawful deductions even though i signed?

They need signed authorisation to make any form deductions from wages regardless. Having signed authorisation for taking the £299 does not give expressed consent to additional deductions. So yes they have unlawfully deducted the 4 days wages from your husbands wages, in breach of section 13 of the employments rights act 1996 for the 2.5 days wages they deducted as a result of your husband attending the course. And under section 14 (sub section 2) of the working time regulations 1998 in regards to payment of accrued holiday entitlement (1.5days).

Let us know how things progress via ACAS.

[law novice]

Re: Unlawful deductions even though i signed?

So they got back to us via ACAS and have refused to settle. Looks like we're going to court. I'm certain we stand a good chance of winning, just could have done without the hassle of court.....:tinysmile_hmm_t2:

[teaboy2]

Re: Unlawful deductions even though i signed?

So they got back to us via ACAS and have refused to settle. Looks like we're going to court. I'm certain we stand a good chance of winning, just could have done without the hassle of court.....:tinysmile_hmm_t2:

More fool them then isn't it! Off course i will help where i can if you request further help.

But remember this vital phrase, "Having signed authorisation for taking the £299 does not give expressed or implied "contractual consent" to make additional deductions", and use it well when stating your case for your claim!!

From experience they are likely playing hardball, and likely feel your unlikely to take legal action or if you did, that you would withdraw. Lots of companies wait to a day or 2 before hearing before offering a settlement, purely in the hope you withdraw from legal action!

How long had your husband worked for the company? As if it was less than 2 years, they probably and foolishly think you can not take legal action since he doesn't qualify for tribunal. Even though you can take it to civil court instead!

[law novice]

Re: Unlawful deductions even though i signed?

He'd been with them for about 6 years. As soon as they decide they want someone out they make life hell for the employee - we've seen it happen to numerous staff members over the years. Sadly no one has taken them to task over it, however, given that a tribunal for constructive dismissal costs almost £1000 and the success rate is approx. 3%, I'm not surprised!! All was fine until he fell out with his boss in November. I won't allow them to 'get away with it'. You just can't treat people like that.
Thank you for all your help.

[teaboy2]

Re: Unlawful deductions even though i signed?

Good on you. Keep me updated.

[law novice]

Re: Unlawful deductions even though i signed?

So......I have filed the court paper. Might be useful to note here that we are claiming for the 4 days wages unlawfully deducted AND underpayment of February.
My husband left on the 26th of Feb (2 days shy of the whole month) BUT they paid him for 18 days rather than the whole month less two days, thus saving themselves about £200 because Feb is a short month! We are agruing that they have to pay him how he was always paid (ie monthly) and they can't suddenly decide to pay him daily because it suits them.
Now......we have recieved their aknowledgement of service and they have ticked the 'defending part of the claim box'. I am assuming they will admit they owe him the 4 days wages back but dispute the final months wage part of the claim - we are yet to recieve their actual defence.

My question..... I know there is no law on final months wages and how it is paid so I am not certain what our chances are. If they admit to the 4 days but dispute owing for Febs pay and they win this part are we liable for court costs? They showed no willingness to settle any part of our claim up until now so I'm fuming! Have they done it on purpose??!! I have also claimed for bank charges which are as a direct result of them underpaying. Help!!!

[law novice]

Re: Unlawful deductions even though i signed?

Ok, so we have recieved a reply to our court papers and they are counterclaiming for loss of earnings!! They have stated that as my husband was on a course and not out earning the company money they are suing for 'loss of earnings'. They've claimed he had the potential to earn the company £350 a day and so they want £1400 for the 4 days he was on the course!!
Any help gratefully recieved - although legally I'm fairly certain they don't have a leg to stand on.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Unlawful deductions even though i signed?

They will have to prove to the court that they have a loss, and also the amount they have lost.
The company are legally obliged to pay the wages agreed with their employee.

Stoppages from wages are governed by legislation.
There are only some things that a company can legally stop.
Your employer is not allowed to make a deduction from your pay or wages unless:

• it is required or allowed by law, for example National Insurance, income tax or student loan repayments
• you agree in writing to a deduction
• your contract of employment says they can
• it is a result of any statutory disciplinary proceedings
• there is a statutory payment due to a public authority
• you have not worked due to taking part in a strike or industrial action
• it is to recover an earlier overpayment of wages or expenses
• it is a result of a court order or Industrial Tribunal decision

A deduction must not reduce your pay below the National Minimum Wage rate (except a limited amount for accommodation). This applies even if you have given your permission for it.
If you were overpaid in error, instead of making a deduction, your employer may try to recover the overpayment by making an application for a court order. For more information about how and when you might be able to prevent your employer from taking back an overpayment, you should speak to one of the following:

• a solicitor
• a Citizens Advice Bureau adviser
• an LRA (Labour Relations Agency) adviser

[law novice]

Re: Unlawful deductions even though i signed?

But how can they have a loss from a course which THEY sent my husband on?? Have you read the whole thread Johnboy007?? They're obviously only countersuing because we've sued them. My husband signed for and agreed a £299 deduction but they've taken more. This is unlawful to start with surely?
Thanks for your help.

[law novice]

Re: Unlawful deductions even though i signed?

CAB have been little help and can't afford a solicitor.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Unlawful deductions even though i signed?

But how can they have a loss from a course which THEY sent my husband on?? Have you read the whole thread Johnboy007?? They're obviously only countersuing because we've sued them. My husband signed for and agreed a £299 deduction but they've taken more. This is unlawful to start with surely?
Thanks for your help.

Hi,
I was just pointing out to you what is allowed legally, stoppages from wages.
Company lawyers are very clever in manipulating or interpreting terms and conditions.
They may claim a loss because of the two days...
They may claim a loss for a number of reasons.
If the actual costs to the company are more than £299.00, then the court may very well rule that they are entitled to claim the excess back.
But good luck anyway............

[law novice]

Re: Unlawful deductions even though i signed?

My research suggests the opposite. I read that even if a court would rule that they would be entitled to the money, if they have not gone about deducting it legally (i.e a contract stating exactly what is being taken) then they lose the right to the money either way. (don't think they do have a right to the money anyway as their own contract specifically stated £299).
I also read that a judge doesnt look favourably on companys who use solicitors in the small claims track.
Also, with contract law I found info that stated if a contract was ambiguous then it falls in favour of the claimant as it was up to the defendant to make sure there was no ambiguity to start with - so it's not for clever lawyers to manipulate and interpret..??

[Johnboy007]

Re: Unlawful deductions even though i signed?

My research suggests the opposite. I read that even if a court would rule that they would be entitled to the money, if they have not gone about deducting it legally (i.e a contract stating exactly what is being taken) then they lose the right to the money either way. (don't think they do have a right to the money anyway as their own contract specifically stated £299).
I also read that a judge doesnt look favourably on companys who use solicitors in the small claims track.
Also, with contract law I found info that stated if a contract was ambiguous then it falls in favour of the claimant as it was up to the defendant to make sure there was no ambiguity to start with - so it's not for clever lawyers to manipulate and interpret..??

Well my friend, if the money had been deducted unlawfully, the court would never issue that ruling.
Your employer isn’t allowed to make deductions unless:

• it’s required or allowed by law, eg National Insurance, income tax or student loan repayments
• you agree in writing
• your contract says they can
• there’s a statutory payment due to a public authority
• you haven’t worked due to taking part in a strike or industrial action
• there’s been an earlier overpayment of wages or expenses
• it’s a result of a court order

A deduction can’t reduce your pay below the National Minimum Wage rate, even if you’ve agreed to it.

[law novice]

Re: Unlawful deductions even though i signed?

[QUOTE=Johnboy007;454973]Well my friend, if the money had been deducted unlawfully, the court would never issue that ruling.

Sorry can you explain that bit. Not sure what you mean. The court wouldn't issue which ruling?

[Johnboy007]

Re: Unlawful deductions even though i signed?

I was just commenting on your post.
My research suggests the opposite. I read that even if a court would rule that they would be entitled to the money, if they have not gone about deducting it legally
No offence intended, just a comment.
John