help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

[enquirer]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

The person who has lodged the complaint never actually heard the discussion but was told by another colleague (not sure if it was to cause problems)...

A Dave Spart character (see Private Eye). A dismal social inadequate trying to feel important.

... this person then proceeded to move across the room to shout and swear at my friend in front of all the other staff and say how they was disgusted with her and that they would of expected it from the younger staff but not her. She promptly apologised as she never realised at the time she had said the term, this was ignored and they continued shouting and swearing at her until eventually the manager on duty intervened and made the offended party sit back down.

Pursue this angle, and pursue it hard. Take the war into their camp.

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

Thank you for your continued help.

The person she was talking to was male, she thinks it was him that told the person that placed the grievance as neither of them spoke to her after the verbal spat thrown at her.

She doesn't know of any actin has been taken as yet as she has been suspended pending the investigation (the gathering of witness statements) and thye would not disclose to her whether he was going to be suspended also.

She has today received a letter confirming her suspension and advising that she will be contacted either by phone or in writing to advise of another meeting or a disciplinary hearing dependant on the outcome of the investigation.

She will do as advised and put her complaint in writing but she will have to post it as she is not allowed on the premises.

I do agree with the non equal part as i have been trying to find any information i can online and it is all in the favour of the person that has complained.

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

Okay so my friend has today received a phone call from her manager, she has been given a disciplinary hearing date of Tuesday at 13:00. She has been informed that it will be confirmed to her in writing and she should receive it tomorrow as it is being sent 1st class recorded, this apparently will contain all the statements obtained from other staff.

They told her she was being disciplined for using "foul and discriminative language in the workplace". So does this mean if she is dismissed it isn't passed to other potential employers as dismissed for racism? as she is worried if she is dismissed then she would be labelled racist and would find it very difficult to get another job in our highly multicultural city.

She asked about her own complaint and was told that she would have the opportunity to discuss that on Tuesday as they couldn't discuss it over the phone.

This is making her really upset and i know she hasn't eaten much since they suspended her on Tuesday, she has been told she can invite a colleague to accompany her but she doesn't know how as they told her she couldn't contact and discuss this with anyone also she is not sure if anyone would be willing to do this as she has effectively been isolated from them all.

Is there any help/advice that would help her make the best defence possible in this situation, i know all the odds are stacked against her but i have to try to help.

[enquirer]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

When she was abused, if she felt that she was about to be physically attacked, she could upgrade her complaint to one of assault ("being put in fear of unlawful force being applied to her person"). That might dull their enthusiasm.

Did the abuser themselves make any racial aspersions? If so, then as the abuse came from a third party, a case could be made for 'racial tensions in the workplace'. That would be quite explosive.

As to a 'colleague', they can't have their cake and eat it - no contact, yet be accompanied. Why not simply turn up with a friend from outside? If they object, then they look ridiculous when the contradiction is pointed out.

If she is a member of a union, she could get assistance there.

[CleverClogs]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

My comment referred to Clever Clogs post which, despite being a bit of a joke in Cloggy's unique style (his humour does grow on you after a while :grin, reflected a fact of life: that people who belong to certain groups (including, but not limited to, ethnic minorities), often have more rights. In other words, it's generally more acceptable to call someone "white trash" (I'm white, by the way, so no offence intended), than to use equivalent terms to refer to people of other ethnic groups. :ohwell: We're not all 'equal' under "Equal Rights"! :whistle:

It's not right and it's not fair...

But then, neither is Mugabe's left buttock. msl:

[CleverClogs]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

Is there any help/advice

Emigrate to Switzerland?

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

Thanks for the reply,

She said she did feel uncomfortable but she didn't feel as though violence was threatened.

She said they didn't actually make any racial comments just asked what she would do if they did.

ACAS specifically states that it has to be a company colleague or a union rep that accompanies people to these meetings would she not be in breach of the rules herself if she were to take another person?

And unfortunately she is not a member of any union, she was in her last job but when they made her redundant the membership lapsed.

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

thank you for all your help and advice but it looks like she will most certainly be sacked.

She has received the information from work, (hand delivered by her manager apparently they missed the last post to guarantee delivery tomorrow). She has been with me most of the evening in tears, they have taken only 3 witness statements 2 from younger members of the team and one from the pakistani manager that was on duty.

They have all lied in their statements saying that she said fu***** paki's with the exception of the manager who didn't actually hear the initial conversation. And they have all stated that she wasn't verbally abused by the accuser that he was calm and polite when he asked her about her comment.

What really pi***s me off is that they had a week prior to him putting his complaint in to agree the details amongst themselves and get their stories straight (which are all remarkably the same) whilst my friend was on annual leave, yet she has not been allowed contact with anyone.

She has managed to get in touch with one person who is still friends with her at work to get them to accompany her to the meeting, unfortunately they were not at work when this all happened.

[wales01man]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

Is there a reason the others would lie in their statements?

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

well the manager and the person who put the complaint in are really good friends, apparently they are always having conversations between themselves whilst supposedly working in urdu so she doubts the manager would want to drop him in it.

And the other 2 males who were interviewed are best friends with the person who complained not to mention they are all younger staff than my friend so probably think it funny to add the swear word in as they know it is against the rules to swear.

We do however have a possible way of showing that she did not swear, due to her nature of work (she works in a call centre) all calls are monitored and as some members of staff got into trouble a while ago (not my friend) for swearing whilst not on a call we are hoping that there will be a recording of the initial conversation that started all this and that will prove that she did not swear and that they have all lied and hopefully prove that he was aggressive towards her.

We just have to try and get them to look.

[charitynjw]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

With regard to references, they nowadays tend to be neutral rather than bad, as employers are aware that any statements which are not properly substantiated could leave them open to a claim for negligent missatement.
(Spring v Guardian Insurance plc http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKHL/1994/7.html )

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

well i have been sat today helping her go through the witness statements, there are some minor inconsistencies like why the person she was actually speaking to would need to confirm what she said with another male that made a witness statement before he told the complainant.

Probably won't do much good given the circumstance and the fact that its never equal.

One comment we did find interesting from the person that has complained was that he stated that unless she is sacked then he will leave as he can't work with someone who he feels threatened by, which to me is trying to blackmail the employer into sacking her so he stays.

[CleverClogs]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

One comment we did find interesting from the person that has complained was that he stated that unless she is sacked then he will leave as he can't work with someone who he feels threatened by, which to me is trying to blackmail the employer into sacking her so he stays.

Were I the employer, I'd sack him at once.

One simply cannot run a business with disloyal employees.

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

well my friend had her disciplinary today, after a 2 hour meting they sacked her, for using the word paki they omitted the swear word as she completely denied using it especially since only a couple of weeks ago they had a team meeting due to certain members of the team swearing and it being heard in the background of other peoples calls.

even though the witnesses had a week to get their stories straight whilst my friend was on holiday this was still classed as a proper process. she also pointed out that she hadn't received written notice of any investigation or been asked if she would like someone to accompany her into any of the investigatory meetings as per their company policy.

They have told her she has 5 days in which to lodge an appeal, but she has said that it probably isn't worth the hassle, and most likely won't change anything.

Her complaint has not yet been dealt with and now they have dismissed her probably won't although they did state that his conduct would be investigated seperately i very much doubt it.

[charitynjw]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

It's always going to be an uphill battle when others are prepared to lie in their statements.

Fwiw, I reckon your friend is better off being out of there - I know I couldn't be around people like that - it would be a nightmare!