redundancy issues, do i go for unfair dismisal

[ILW]

Hi all, as per my welcome post i am trying to find some advice regarding my redundancy situation, ill tell you what has happened so far.

Im a mobile electrician working for large company in the uk under a parent company from france.

It all started Wednesday of last week, we (me and the other engineers) received a letter from our office manager saying that due to loss of contracts etc the company has no choice but to make redundancies, it then went on to say that i fell into the at risk category along with all the other mobile electricians, handymen and air conditioning engineers, 11 people in total.

I/we heard nothing more at all on the subject until friday of the same week, i had a phone call from a fellow engineer saying he had received a letter saying he was no longer at risk, as the day went on word got round that letters had been sent, i got home from work to find i didn't have a letter, naturally i was very concerned so i phoned my contracts manager to ask what the situation was, he apologized and said unfortunately i had scored lowest and it was me who was being made redundant from the pool of electricians. I received a letter the following morning saying my job was still at risk and as it stands my job will be made redundant on the 31st may 2013 but the company will continue to consolidate with me regarding the situation.

My understanding is that i should of had a consolidation period between receiving the "at risk" letter and being told it was me who was being made redundant, is this correct? i had no idea what was happening, how i was being scored, what i would be entitled to if it was me etc etc.

I had a meeting with my office manager and an HR rep friday just gone, they tried to offer me other jobs in the company which were 100's of miles away and totally impracticable, i noticed that they kept saying things then quickly adding "if you are made redundant" do they know they have messed up? i asked at the end of the meeting if it was correct that i finished on the 31st of may the office manager said "yes" the HR rep then butted in and said "if you are made redundant, ie we cant find you anything else in the company", i recorded the meeting on my phone, i didnt tell anyone i was doing so and it was strictly to be used to take written notes after the meeting.


I also strongly disagree with the scores i have been awarded by one of the managers who i feel has a gripe with me!, this manager, my contract manager has no idea of what i do, how i work or the quality of my work, as said im a mobile engineer and to my knowledge he does not travel round to check my work, contact customers to see how i perform etc, yet he has scored me as satisfactory on almost all of the criteria listed by the company this cant be deemed fair surely, can it?.

I feel that as all the other electrical engineers live in the same town, im not "part of the gang" so to speak, i feel i don't get given the jobs they do etc, as petty as this sounds i feel this has hindered my progress in the company, also we have a handyman on the company, who is "part of the gang" who is training to be an electrician, funded by the company of course, he occasionally works as an electrician doing jobs i could be doing even though his job title is non qualified handyman, i have also been informed that the company are in the process of changing his job title to trainee electrician, can they do this and make me redundant? could this strengthen my case for unfair dismissal?.

I would really appreciate any advice please folks as i haven't a clue were i stand or what i am entitled to do.

Many thanks in advance

ILW

[Eloise01]

Re: redundancy issues, do i go for unfair dismisal

(a) You had a consultation period - with fewer than 20 employees at risk, there is no legal minimum.

(b) You are entitled to ask what yous scored and why. But it is very diffilcult to challenge scores unless you can prove (as in hard evidence) that they are wrong)

(c) Yes they can have a trainee electrician and make you redundant - unless you are also a trainee electrician?

(d) Saying that you may not be made redundant isn't meaningdul - if there is an alternative job available, right up to the last moment, people at risk get "first dibs" on it. So your employer is simply saying what they ought to.

I have some FAQs that I use elsewhere. Have a look and then come back when you have been able to digest them and think about what happened.

http://www.redundancyforum.co.uk/fre...es-arent-fair/

http://www.redundancyforum.co.uk/fre...-tribunals-do/

http://www.redundancyforum.co.uk/fre...aningful-mean/

http://www.redundancyforum.co.uk/fre...what-evidence/

There may be other FAQs on the site that you think are useful too. Please feel free to browse.

[ILW]

Re: redundancy issues, do i go for unfair dismisal

Hi eloise, thank you for the reply.

When you say i have had a consultation period when would my employer claim this was?, am i correct in saying the law states that there is no minimal time period for less than 20 employees just what is fair? i cant see 2 days with no contact what so ever being fair, would this not stand?.

Ill have a look through the FAQs thanks its sometime just easier to get an answer to a query rather than reading other peoples.

[Eloise01]

Re: redundancy issues, do i go for unfair dismisal

I am afraid it's not that simple. I have seen plenty of "fair" consultation periods that lasted a couple of hours. In the end it would be down to a tribunal to decide - but I wouldn't say that you have a great argument here. If redundancies are required, they are required and there is nothing to discuss. They have started to talk to you about possible alternatives. And consultation of this kind would go on even during your notice period. Not at all clear cut, and not, in my view, sufficient to rest a case on. Not yet anyway, and not based on what you have said. Digest those threads I linked you to - she what you think of overnight. I know it seems all very quick - but you have three months less a day after you are dismissed to make a tribunal claim. You aren't in a rush yet!

[ILW]

Re: redundancy issues, do i go for unfair dismisal

Having a read through as we speak. In my company handbook it says if i want to appeal against the decision i must do so in writing to the HR department within 5 days of official notice? but after researching i thought the law says i have 3 months less a day as you said?, im not sure which is right?.
Im going to write a letter of appeal very soon and say im do not agree with the scores i have been awarded and have "actual fact" to be able to disagree with them, im not sure whether or not to add in the letter i do not feel i was correctly or fairly consolidated etc?.
Im not sure if i should be in a rush or not eloise?, the 5 day mention in the company handbook has me worried to be honest.

[labman]

Re: redundancy issues, do i go for unfair dismisal

Eloise and the government say 3 months, so I'd go with that:

https://www.gov.uk/employment-tribunals

[Eloise01]

Re: redundancy issues, do i go for unfair dismisal

You are confusing two things. The employers appeal commonly sets a time limit, and they can do so. A tribunal claim is three months less a day from the date of the action you are complaining about - which in your case could not start unbtil you are actually dismissed. The employers appeal must be within the five days that they set. In that appeal you must raise any issue which you expect a tribunal may hear - you cannot leave out complaints and then complain to a tribunal that they didn't treat you fairly over matters you didn't complain about.

[ILW]

Re: redundancy issues, do i go for unfair dismisal

I see, I think i understand now thank you Eloise, so I have to get my letter of appeal to my employer within 5 days? Am I right in saying this?. I have nothing to loose by appealing do I?.
many thanks again for you advice.

[Eloise01]

Re: redundancy issues, do i go for unfair dismisal

Yes and NO - you must get your appeal in within 5 days and you have nothing to lose. In fact, if you were to attempt a tribunal claim, you must appeal.

[ILW]

Re: redundancy issues, do i go for unfair dismisal

A quick update to this, I sent an appeal letter last week stating the grounds of my appeal, Iv just had a text message from my other half saying the office manager is trying to contact me my hearing has been set for 3pm tomorrow at an office that is over 100 miles away from me! Should they have informed of this via a letter? And can I refuse the appeal location as its of an inconvenience to travel that far? I do still have my company vehicle, I had booked today and tomorrow of as days to be looking for a new job etc.

[Eloise01]

Re: redundancy issues, do i go for unfair dismisal

There are no rules set down in law as to this other than there must be an appeal. I am afraid that since there are no transport issues and you are still in their full time employment, you must decide whether the appeal or looking for another job is more important to you. This appeal is what you asked for - I would suggest you go.

[ILW]

Re: redundancy issues, do i go for unfair dismisal

Ok thank you Eloise, just seemed a little unprofessional asking my other half (who works in the office) to notify me of the hearing.

[Eloise01]

Re: redundancy issues, do i go for unfair dismisal

Ok thank you Eloise, just seemed a little unprofessional asking my other half (who works in the office) to notify me of the hearing.

Yep, I agree - but unprofessional isn't unlawful.

[mystery1]

Re: redundancy issues, do i go for unfair dismisal

I think it breaches the DPA personally.

What does it say in your terms and conditions with regards to notice of a meeting ?

M1

[ILW]

Re: redundancy issues, do i go for unfair dismisal

I will check on that now mystery1.