blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

[miliitant]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

i am being phoned as soon as he is released, ill update then

many thanks

[miliitant]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

this is getting beyond a joke

he was released an 12.30 AM. thats after five and a half hours. he said the interview finished at 930 pm but the copper had stated that he needed to talk it over with the sergeant

end result was they charged him and he has to go to court at the end of the month

the copper stated that they were unsure as to prosecute him, (CHARGE) so they were going to let the courts decide his guilt or innocence

UNBERLIEVABLE

[bluebottle]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

Miliitant,

In all the years I have been on this Earth, I have never heard police officers come out with such complete and total s**te. It is not for the police to decide whether your member is prosecuted. That is the job and decision of the Crown Prosecution Service. I don't know how bad your member's Aspergers is, but if the police knew of it, they should have had an Appropriate Adult present at any interview. Also, do you know if he was offered the services of a solicitor and if PACE was complied with? By the sound of it, PACE has not been complied with. I feel that your union's solicitors need to get on top of this asap.

Questions I would ask are -

a. What evidence do the police have that your member has committed an offence?; and
b. Why haven't they interviewed the manager who assaulted him and have they viewed the CCTV footage?

One thing I can see the employers facing and you can add this to the list in Post #11 is Malicious Prosecution, if the police/CPS go ahead with a prosecution and it is either dropped or your member is acquitted or the court rules "No case to answer". If, on the other hand, the police send a file to the CPS and the CPS bin it, I would unleash the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse on the employer.

BB

[miliitant]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

I would unleash the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse on the employer.

I AM ABOUT TO UNBRIDLE THEM AS WE SPEAK

I THINK ONCE THE CPS GET THIS THEY WILL SEE SENSE AND BIN IT

[bluebottle]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

If non-compliance with PACE is evident, CPS tend to get the jitters as this can suggest duress or coercion has been used during interviews. Under current laws and rules of evidence, any testimony or evidence obtained under duress or by means of coercion or other improper means can be ruled inadmissible at trial. In your member's case, the fact he has a learning disability could impact on the case in the way that a good defence solicitor or barrister could argue that failure to have an Appropriate Adult present during interview means that the police exploited this and that he was open to suggestion and being lead in what to say. Either you or some other person should have been present when your member was interviewed and I suspect, if the police knew of your member's Asperger's, they know themselves they should have complied with this requirement under PACE. Make sure the CPS are made fully-aware of this and of the existence of the CCTV footage showing the manager clobbering your member. I am of the considered opinion that the CPS will not be happy bunnies once they see this CCTV footage.

[miliitant]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

tell me blubottle

since when has it been the decision of the police to charge a suspect who denies an offence

it is my understanding the cps would have reached a decision before he answered his bail,

or has the copper not even contacted the cps yet and doing it off his own back

[bluebottle]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

Before PACE, the decision to charge and proceed was made by the police. However, due to abuse and police corruption, PACE came into being as a result of the Scarman Enquiry and the decision to prosecute was handed to the CPS, basically, neutering the police and putting a stop to a lot of police corruption, although some corruption still exists, though, not the extent

I would be inclined to contact the CPS first thing Monday and find out what is happening. If they know nothing about it, I would get the union solicitors onto it and, possibly, involve the IPCC. If the police have seen the damning CCTV footage, the question that needs to be asked as to why they are ignoring the member's testimony and preferring the manager's testimony. Something just doesn't sit right. It's a gut-feeling and my gut-feelings are usually right.

[miliitant]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

interesting development today

the copper who is dealing with this case spent 2 hours at my office today.

he took one of the line managers who was with the other thug of a manager at the same time as the original incident into a side room

i has a nose through the window and the copper was taking an official full statement from this other manager

could it be the CPS at last smell a rat ????

[bluebottle]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

If the copper is going to get the CPS to run with this, he has to have the evidence to substantiate the allegations being made against your member. If the copper was taking a witness statement, the prosecution have to provide copies of this to your member and his legal representative at least three weeks prior to any hearing, but the copper has to get the CPS to run with it first. If the CCTV footage shows the opposite to what the two managers have alleged and the CPS have a copy of this, it should be blindingly obvious that the two managers are lying toerags.

I would certainly speak to the union legal advisers about this matter, especially as it appears your member was not legally-represented at interviews with the police. It would be a good idea to ask for a copy of the custody record relating to your member on the occasions they arrested and interviewed him. This will need to be done by a solicitor or barrister. My view is that PACE has not been complied with and that can have a major impact on a case.

[miliitant]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

you mention about the court bundle being made avaliable before a hearing

the court appearence is sceduled in 3 weeks

seem pretty quick to have everthing typed up and exchanged in 3 weeks

it was the copper who stated the court date at the police station, not the CPS, who were not involved at the time

HQ are fully aware of developments as i spent an hour on the phone to legal services today

[miliitant]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

just a point to make (preaching)

to all people who state "what is the use of unions anymore"

unions do nothing for me, the top boys are on a gravy train at my expense

i do not need a union

follow this thread and welcome to the modern world of corrupt and untrained managers with performance management techniques. they see staff as nothing more than a commodity who the deem they can just dispose of as they wish for a bonus.

this chap would have been railroaded out of a job by now if it was not for reps like me standing up and protecting members. people accuse unions of living in the past, ask yourself when was they last major industrial unrest >

it is trade unions that live in the modern world and if this goverment had their way they would bring back the old master and servent act

rant over

[bluebottle]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

I think you need to get some straight answers from the police and fast. It might not be a bad idea for Legal Services to contact CPS directly and ask what is going on. If they don't know anything about it, get straight on to the headquarters of the police force involved and ask what the bloody hell is going on. My gut-feeling is that PACE has not been complied with and that could influence matters significantly.

[miliitant]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

many thanks

knowledge is power

[bluebottle]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

From what you say, Legal Services need to chase this up with the police force involved and the CPS. Something very odd is going on.

[miliitant]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

well then, he has had his day in court and a trial date has been set for four months

judge was quite critical at the magistrates court towards the police case

i have now been given the case management bundle as we left court

they are not using the police own statements, only that of the employer and staff

the managers statement to the police is now proved to be a complete fabrication as it does not match the evidence of the cctv

guess what, the police have withdrawn the cctv evidence stating its not clear enough, well i will introduce it as part of the defence

each witness statement contradicts the other

they are using the second witness statements of the two other managers, these were done about a month ago. they came into the office and plod got them to rewrite them, both seem identicle as though the copper had coached them

there two original statements from them have been ignored in the witness case management bundle

it realy is a complete farce