Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

[teaboy2]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

On A side note it maybe worth contact Paypal and asking them to provide the details of the 2nd paypal account as you believe it was fruadulently set up in your name by a colleague that had access to company card details, which was used with the 2nd account. I know you do not have details for the 2nd account, but since paypal were the ones to inform you that you had 2 accounts, then giving them your account details from your 1st account would likely bring up on their system details of the second account. Ask them for details of the email address, transactions made and what items were purchased and where their were delivered to and on what dates and times the purchases made, and ask them to email and post you copies of all the account records they hold for the 2nd account. In from them you are considering making this a police matter too.

[charitynjw]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

Sorry for stating the obvious, but the contact from the ?previous employer? to the new one, in which details of the disciplinary decision were divulged, were probably supplied by someone who was involved in the proceedings.
These proceedings are not concluded until the employee has been given the right to appeal.

[lfc3110]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

i think the same- I am certain its my former manager. when I filled the details in for a reference I did not give my boss's details as I knew I wouldn't get a fair reference. I gave my colleagues details. My colleague has convinced me that she has never received a reference request and I am aware it would have been marked private and confidential as the other referee I gave told me theirs was. So i think my boss has intercepted the reference request and then after the disciplinary meeting that happened without my knowledge, phoned up my new employers. I have sent an email today to my new employers asking if they can confirm exactly who relayed my information to them as I was taking legal advice. I do not remeber setting up a 2nd paypal account but I'm not saying I haven't. I used to purchase many parts for work via credit card and once upon a time I may have had to pay by paypal for work purposes but if I did it wasn't regular and could have been only once or twice at the most. My credit card details were known not only bt my manager but also by my colleagues. There was only me and one other colleague had our own purchasing cards but they were for the whole team to use. Whilst I was extremely reluctant to do so we were both told by our boss that they were 'team' credit cards and we both had to have the details written down in case of our absence for other team members to use. I had told our card team on many occassion that I wasn't happy to do that but they didn't seem bothered.

I have contacted acas who have just told me to get my appeal in asap and then to wait and see what happens after that and get back in touch with them if necessary.

[teaboy2]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

i think the same- I am certain its my former manager. when I filled the details in for a reference I did not give my boss's details as I knew I wouldn't get a fair reference. I gave my colleagues details. My colleague has convinced me that she has never received a reference request and I am aware it would have been marked private and confidential as the other referee I gave told me theirs was. So i think my boss has intercepted the reference request and then after the disciplinary meeting that happened without my knowledge, phoned up my new employers. I have sent an email today to my new employers asking if they can confirm exactly who relayed my information to them as I was taking legal advice. I do not remeber setting up a 2nd paypal account but I'm not saying I haven't. I used to purchase many parts for work via credit card and once upon a time I may have had to pay by paypal for work purposes but if I did it wasn't regular and could have been only once or twice at the most. My credit card details were known not only bt my manager but also by my colleagues. There was only me and one other colleague had our own purchasing cards but they were for the whole team to use. Whilst I was extremely reluctant to do so we were both told by our boss that they were 'team' credit cards and we both had to have the details written down in case of our absence for other team members to use. I had told our card team on many occassion that I wasn't happy to do that but they didn't seem bothered.

I have contacted acas who have just told me to get my appeal in asap and then to wait and see what happens after that and get back in touch with them if necessary.

So basically any member of the team could have been responsible for the use of your card, and its more than likely to be one that had a grudge with you e.g. the manager!

Contact paypal as i suggested to get the account information on the 2nd paypal account, but first contact Acas.

I believe you have strong grounds of appeal as the evidence given the fact all the team have the card details is nothing more than circumstantial at best, and would not even pass a courts, on balance of probability test. not to mention the fact you have not yet seen any of the evidence they have relied upon.

If you like I can write a supporting letter for you to go with your letter of appeal to your old employers and to your new employer. You will have to PM me your details though and an email address (along with the details of the old and new employer) so i can send you the 2 letters as they will be on official company letter headed paper. It will certainly add some weight to your claim/appeal as well. And of course will hopefully make your new employer reconsider.

By the way did you forward the email where your old employer made it clear no one had contacted your new employers HR, to your new employer as suggested?

[lfc3110]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

I have just forwarded the email from my old hr to my new hr and have requested a prompt response. Teaboy2 have pm'd you

[teaboy2]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

I have just forwarded the email from my old hr to my new hr and have requested a prompt response. Teaboy2 have pm'd you

Have responded to the PM. Just so those reading the thread are aware, no letter from me is required and LFC has already written and send an appeal letter. So nothing new has been discussed that is not already discussed in the thread here. Though my offer to write letters on LFC behalve if required in future still stands.

[bluebottle]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

Okay. I've been through a load of legislation to see what there is available to deal with LFC's case. I've also picked up the posts since my last post in this thread.

Taking the history of bullying and harassment by the manager, LFC has a case under Section 2, Protection from Harassment Act 1997. However, the civil remedy provisions under Section 3 of the Act are, probably, going to be the better provisions to use from a practical point of view. Even the police advise victims of harassment to use Section 3 as with an injunction in place, it makes their job a lot easier. The term "any course of conduct", in Section 1 of the Act, means exactly what it says. The onus is on the defendant to prove their conduct does not amount to harassment.

If the manager was involved in the setting up of the second PayPal account, there may be a case to answer under Section 4, Fraud Act 2006 (Fraud by Abuse of Position), as it looks likely that both LFC and their former employer would suffer loss, or be exposed to loss or the risk of loss. And since the manager is in a position of trust and expected to safeguard the financial position of the employer, it certainly looks, on the face of it, that the manager has breached this provision. However, more facts are needed before a definite can be declared.

The ruling in the case of Mjrowski -v- Guys and St Thomas's NHS Trust 2005 applies to this case as LFC's former employers are vicariously liable for the actions of the manager, as they are for all those in their employment.

The next questions is "What influence does the Michalak case have on this case?" The ET in the Michalak case, quite rightly, applied the Court of Appeal ruling in the Mjrowski case and also took due note of the harassment provisions of the Equality Act 2010. In LFC's, it is not the Equality Act that applies, unless sex discrimination has taken place, in which case, the Act would, but the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. If LFC's depression can be directly attributed to the manager's conduct, then this opens up yet another avenue of litigation against their former employer.

Under the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 (HSAW), every employer is under a statutory duty, under Section 2, to ensure the health and safety of employees, to ensure a safe working environment and safe working practices. This also includes not exposing an employee to unnecessary stress. Under Section 7, every employee has a statutory duty to look after their own health and safety and to assist their employer in complying with their statutory obligations under Section 2 and 3 of the Act, including other employees and others who may be affected by their actions or omissions. With this in mind, it would appear the manager may well be accountable under Section 7.

The communication between LFC's previous employer and new employers has now been attributed to someone not within the previous employer's HR department, by means of an email from LFC's former employer. As has been said, if the HR department did not contact LFC's new employer, the only other person who would have been privy to such information is the manager. Two matters come to mind here; Improper Disclosure of Information, in breach of the Data protection Act 1998, and Section 2, Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

So, to summarise what we have -

There is a case to answer against LFC's former employer under the following legal enactments -

Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 (Section 2)
Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (Section 2) [Vicarious Liability due to the ruling in the Mjrowski case]

In respect of the manager, there almost certainly appears to be a case to answer them under the following enactments -

Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 (Section 7)
Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (Section 2)
Fraud Act 2006 (Section 4)

Once more information is available, the above can be reviewed and, also, in the light of any further developments in the case.

Bluebottle

[lfc3110]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

I have had confirmation from my new employer that they did receive a telephone call from my old HR dept.

And spoken to a solicitor today who suggested It's beyond appeal and I need to go straight to ET- your thoughts??

[bluebottle]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

I have had confirmation from my new employer that they did receive a telephone call from my old HR dept.

And spoken to a solicitor today who suggested It's beyond appeal and I need to go straight to ET- your thoughts??

Hello LFC,

Normally, you would be expected to take all reasonable steps to resolve the matter through mediation or informal resolution. However, a solicitor has advised that there are no reasonable prospects of resolving this matter through mediation or informal resolution. My advice would be to give ACAS a quick call, explain to them what the solicitor has said and see what they say.

Also, if you are not a trade union member, check your home contents insurance as there may be a provision that provides you with cover to pursue a claim through an Employment Tribunal.

Give the other Legal Beagles an opportunity to voice their opinion on this development, but it sounds like this matter will only be resolved through an Employment Tribunal.

Bluebottle

[teaboy2]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

I have had confirmation from my new employer that they did receive a telephone call from my old HR dept.

And spoken to a solicitor today who suggested It's beyond appeal and I need to go straight to ET- your thoughts??

Ask them the name of the person from your old HR Department, if they can not provide it then there is no confirmation that it was from your old HR. Note you could involve the new employer in any claim if their are grounds suggesting they are covering up the truth.

[charitynjw]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

Lister v Hesley Hall Ltd [2002] 1 AC 215

At para 65, Lord Millet said:
"Α Vicarious Liability is a species of strict liability. It is not premised on any culpable
act or omission on the part of the employer; an employer who is not personally at
fault is made legally answerable for the fault of the of his employee. It is best
understood as a loss distribution device."

[charitynjw]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

Another thought - could it be possible that the new employer recorded the telephone conversation made by the person claiming to be the former employer?

[lfc3110]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

Have asked my ex new employers this morning whether they have a name and whether the call was recorded I'm awaiting their response

[leclerc]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

Have asked my ex new employers this morning whether they have a name and whether the call was recorded I'm awaiting their response

I would ask for them to put this in writing because it is important evidence contradicting what has previously been told to you.

[lfc3110]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

Just had email back from ex new employer. we don't record telephone calls in the business so I can confirm that the call was received in good faith by ourselves. The caller identified themselves as a member of xxxx HR dept.

I have gone back to them and said I would like a name otherwise I may have a claim against them for covering up the truth!