Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

[charitynjw]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

'Discrimination' must be based on one of the 'protected characteristics' (age, disability, race, religion, sex etc)

[leclerc]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

I think the grounds of appeal should be switched around, ie I have never received any of the evidence of the alleged offences that I committed which is a breach of the disciplinary process. I have never received notice of the disciplinary hearing in writing which is a breach of the disciplinary process. I think the two things themselves are sufficient grounds for appeal.

Teaboy2, I think the two failures, regardless of any discrimination are serious enough for the dismissal to be overturned. When I was sacked I received evidence via Registered mail and I received the notification via registered mail. Can I ask what you guys think of that?

I think the evidence surrounding what is alleged to be evidence should NOT go into the letter because it assumes that you have the evidence or know what the evidence is. I think that until you have the evidence to hand that a defence against evidence unseen is unnecessary.
Over to you guys.

[charitynjw]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

I think the grounds of appeal should be switched around, ie I have never received any of the evidence of the alleged offences that I committed which is a breach of the disciplinary process. I have never received notice of the disciplinary hearing in writing which is a breach of the disciplinary process. I think the two things themselves are sufficient grounds for appeal.

Teaboy2, I think the two failures, regardless of any discrimination are serious enough for the dismissal to be overturned. When I was sacked I received evidence via Registered mail and I received the notification via registered mail. Can I ask what you guys think of that?

I think the evidence surrounding what is alleged to be evidence should NOT go into the letter because it assumes that you have the evidence or know what the evidence is. I think that until you have the evidence to hand that a defence against evidence unseen is unnecessary.
Over to you guys.

Not sure what you mean, but prior to April 2009 there was a process known as the Modified Procedure.
Some info here
http://www.personneltoday.com/articl...rocedures.html

[leclerc]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

What I was getting at is that having notification of the date of the hearing is important to have.
If the letter is going to include a defence then I think the OP needs to name names on the issue of using the company card and when that offence occurred, since it is part of their appeal, ie that it was unreasonable to do so.

[lfc3110]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

Just had an email from my new emplyers

RE: Termination of employment during Probationary Period as a result of unsatisfactory references


I am writing following your conversation with xxx on 1st February 2012 which resulted in your immediate suspension from our employment.

As you were aware your employment with XXXXX Handling is subject to the receipt of two satisfactory references and the completion of a probationary period.

Unfortunately the telephone conversation received on 1st February 2012 from your previous employer and the subsequent receipt of documentation from yourself has resulted in XXXX Handling needing to take the action to terminate your employment with immediate effect.

You will be paid three days pay for your work on 30th Jan - 1st February 2012 and your employment is terminated from this date.

We are naturally very disappointed that these circumstances have resulted in this action.







I am so gutted. This was my dream job. I worked hard at 2 interviews to secure this position. so whatever happens I have lost the job that meant so much to me

[astraldream]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

I have no advice but others will come along soon with advice im sure.

I just wanted to say how sorry i am to hear your news.

[teaboy2]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

Am sorry to hear your new employer terminated your employment. But look at this way, its strengthens your case against the old Employer and will likely result in a very substantial reward too. I know its not as good as the feeling of working for a wage, but end of the day they have caused you to be out of work as a result of their unfair, unlawful and down right unreasonable behaviour and as such thats why they will face having to pay you a large sum of money in damages.

Basically they knowingly contacted your new employer knowing what they said would result in you getting sacked, so unfairly dismissing you was not enough for them, they also had to see you were sacked in your new job too. Plus i wouldn't be surprised if your old HR no nothing about it, and for it to have been your old manager pretending to be calling from HR, that was responsible.

You need to get confirmation from your old HR if they were the ones that contacted your new employer by phone on that day. If they didn't then well i'll get the coffin and the nails and you bring the hammer, because by the time we are through with your ex manager and former employee we will be hammering the final nail in their coffins, so to speak.

[charitynjw]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

Hi lfc3110,

So sorry to read about this latest turn of events.

Quick question - in your original resignation letter to your former employer, did you give reasons for resigning which indicated the problems you were having?
Also, when you were off ill, were your former employers aware of the reasons (ie would there be a record ar HR)?
(2 questions, sorry!)

[bluebottle]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

Hi LFC,

From what I can see, your former employers clearly don't know how the law works and where the mantraps English Law tends to lay for the unwary lie.

Teaboy has given you some excellent advice and I don't think there is very much I can add, other than it is easier to go for Harassment than Slander and/or Defamation. Certainly, by phoning your new employers and bad-mouthing you, your former employers have engaged in Conduct Amounting to Harassment under the Protection from Harrassment Act 1997, which is actionable under Section 3 of the Act. If you do lose you new job, I would seek damages for loss of income caused by the actions of your former employers in your claim under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

The failure to provide evidence and failure to inform you of the so-called disciplinary hearing are going to compound your former employer's actions.

If the matter goes to an ET, it might be an idea to see if the doctor(s) who treated you for depression is/are willing to provide you with a Statement of Evidence. If the words "WORK-RELATED STRESS" were written on your Med 3 Doctor's Statement (sicknote) by your GP, then this puts you in a slightly stronger position. Under Section 2, Health and Safety at Work Act 1974, all employers are required to ensure a "safe working environment" and that includes not exposing employees to unnecessary stress. Also, Regulation 3, Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999, places a duty on employers to carry out risk assessments to determine whether any risks exist and how they can be mitigated or eliminated. It appears that your former employers have not complied with their statutory duties and if this goes to an ET or to court, the onus is on them to prove that they have complied with their statutory obligations.

With harassment, there are two pieces of legislation that are relevant. The first and most commonly-used, is the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. This would be suitable to deal with most of the bullying and harassment you have suffered. The other piece of legislation that applies is the Equality Act 2010. As Charitynjw has pointed out, in the Michalak case, the damages awarded were mainly for sex and race discrimination. This is because the Equality Act deals with harassment in specific circumstances. The Protection from Harassment Act is a "catch-all" general-purpose Act that is useful for dealing with workplace bullying.

You may also like to note Mjrowski -v- Guys and St Thomas's NHS Trust 2005, a Court of Appeal ruling that makes an employer vicariously liable for the actions of an employee or employees against another employee which amount to harassment, under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

As to which would have appropriate jurisdiction - ET or court - that is a question that needs to be answered by an employment lawyer. If you are a trade union member, they may be able to provide you with legal advice and representation as a benefit of your membership. Also, check your home contents insurance. Most policies have £50,000 of cover available to pursue cases at ETs as one of the benefits of the policy.

I hope what I have posted above is helpful.

Bluebottle

[lfc3110]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

in was advised by my boss yesterday that it was my old employers HR that contacted their HR an not my old boss but i will ask them that question as well

[bluebottle]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

in was advised by my boss yesterday that it was my old employers HR that contacted their HR an not my old boss but i will ask them that question as well

Doesn't matter who made the comment. Harassment is harassment, per se.

[teaboy2]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

Yes but the new Employer will not know any one in the old employers HR - So all your old boss has to say is that she is from the HR department, and your new HR department would be non the wiser.

[lfc3110]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

Hi lfc3110,

So sorry to read about this latest turn of events.

Quick question - in your original resignation letter to your former employer, did you give reasons for resigning which indicated the problems you were having?
Also, when you were off ill, were your former employers aware of the reasons (ie would there be a record ar HR)?
(2 questions, sorry!)

I just said I felt unable to return following ill health however I had mentioned to Hr several times about the bullying and they urged me to make a grievence against her- but I didn't feel able to cope with going through that at the time. Its only now I feel ready to fight my cause

[Celestine]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

Suggested rewrite of your letter. :beagle:

CALL ACAS as soon as possible. Monday-Friday, 8am-8pm and Saturday, 9am-1pm: 08457 47 47 47. This is very serious.

(Send recorded delivery)

TO
FROM

DATE

I am writing because I have been informed of YW’s decision to dismiss me and I wish to appeal that decision.

This situation is a dreadful shock to me and I would like to advise you of the situation from my point of view.

I handed in my resignation on XX January 2012; which was accepted by Human Resources, and I have an email (from XX) confirming that acceptance.

On XX January 2012, I received a letter from XX inviting me to attend a disciplinary meeting on the 25th January; which I was unable to attend as I had to go to a funeral (which had been booked as leave?).

I was then told by XX in HR, that I was been investigated for unauthorised use of the company credit card although I was not told what transaction/s had allegedly been made and therefore I requested a copy of the statement/s. XX advised me she would send me copies in the post, which to date I still have not received.

I had previously already asked XX if I needed to return to work to fulfil my notice but I was told I didn’t need to. I asked if I could take up new employment with immediate effect and was told I could by XX.

I started my new job this week and was extremely distressed to be told by my new employers on 2nd February 2012 that (Company Name) HR team had telephoned my new employers, and told them that as I failed to attend a disciplinary on 1st February I had been dismissed. I have not received any invitation to attend a disciplinary since that of the 25th January nor have I received any copies of the alleged transactions to date.
I have today 3rd February received notice from my new employers that my employment contract has been terminated due to the allegations made in that telephone call from XX.
This news is devastating to me and I am now determined to ensure that this appalling treatment and breach of many fundamental employment laws will be rectified fully.

I wrote a letter to xx dated 27th Jan advising him that I could have potentially used the card in error, as I opened a new Nat West account in November 2011 and my personal debit card was very similar in appearance to the credit card and the pin numbers were the same. I advised XX that if that proved to be the case then I would of course repay any amount due.

However, HR have today forwarded me my dismissal letter and it says one of the reasons was ‘attempts to conceal the above activity on the YW procurement card by linking a new email account to the PayPal account linked to the card’. I can find no evidence of this occurring and I am convinced that any discrepancies can be innocently explained.

I am also aware of another instance of a staff member mistakenly using a company credit card to purchase personal items. That employee was not disciplined in any way.


So I am appealing on the dismissal for the following reasons:

• I cannot attend a disciplinary hearing that I was not informed about.
• Disciplinary procedures have not been followed correctly. (OTHERS ADVISE PLS) which, how?)

• I have not been sent the documentation regarding the transactions as requested concerning the alleged usage of the procurement card. This has prevented me from defending myself

• A colleague made exactly the same mistake as I am now accused of yet did not face any disciplinary action.

I feel I have been treated unfairly and have done so since I had cause to complain about my Manager (XXX) to her Manager last year following a public outburst. She has made my working life extremely difficult and hostile ever since. She was largely responsible for the onset of my depression.


I am also well aware of the Wakefield Employment Tribunal claim in which an award of £4.4 million was granted to the claimant for Harassment and Unfair Dismissal and I will be using this to back up my claim to the Employment Tribunal if you do not withdraw the Unfair Dismissal and apologise in writing and also contact my new employer informing them that you had unfairly dismissed me. Though it is now unlikely this will remedy the damage already done by your companies actions.

As my new employer has terminated my contract as a result of your Unfair Dismissal I will also be pursuing you via either Employment Tribunal or Civil Court for Breach of Protection from Harassment Act 1997, Breach of the Data Protection Act 1998, Slander and Defamation as a result of you contacting my new place of work leading to the termination of my employment with my that new employer, as well as for financial detriment suffered as a result of loss of wages which would be equal to the wages I would have received between now and retirement age with annual increases wage/salary taken into account.

I now formally request copies of all financial statements pertaining to the alleged irregularities. I also request a full copy of my employee file.

I am currently seeking legal advice and I put you on notice of contact from my solicitors.

Yours sincerely


XXXX

[bluebottle]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

I just said I felt unable to return following ill health however I had mentioned to Hr several times about the bullying and they urged me to make a grievence against her- but I didn't feel able to cope with going through that at the time. Its only now I feel ready to fight my cause

It sounds like you have grounds for bringing proceedings for Unfair AND Constructive Dismissal. However, ACAS are likely to advise you go for Unfair Dismissal as the onus is on your former employers to prove you were not unfairly dismissed. With Constructive Dismissal, it is for the employee to prove they have been Constructively Dismissed.

I have been in touch with ACAS a number of times over the past 16 months and they are very helpful - and impartial. Follow Celestine's advice and contact ACAS asap.