Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

[teaboy2]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

First all your new employer had no legitmate grounds in which to suspend you, any employer would question why your previous employer was expecting you to attend a disciplinary knowing full well you had already started a new job and had already resigned, inform your employer of the letter you sent the previous employer and advise you new employer you had resigned with immediate effect as soon as you heard of possible disciplinary action due to it being completely unreasonable course of action for them to take given the circumstances. Did you point out that the disciplinary was only mentioned after you originally resigned and your manager was a bully towards you at work as well as the circumstances?

It may be worth pointing out that your former Employer can only withdraw their reference and may have breached the data protection act by disclosing so much information.

Also if you had never received a formal written invitiation to the disciplinary inform your new employer of such, as such failure to issue you a formal written invite to a disciplinary meeting, where they have now dismissed you (which is what they probably intended anyway) is unfair dismissal. I would contact acas with the view that you will be taking employment tribunal action, and inform your current employer that you will be appealing the dismissal on grounds of unfair dismissal and harassment. You may also have a claim for slander/libel against your previous employer if it is found the dismissal was unfair.

[lfc3110]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

I have not received any evidence to date- no this has never happened before i have never used the company card for personal use and certainly didn't intend to on this occasion.although one of my ex colleagues today advised me she did the same thing a few years ago and she just paid the money back without it going to discliplinary= i have no idea how much the purchase or purchases were for although the dismissal letter emailed to me suggests it was paypal. so i must have registered the wrong card- however it came to light last month that I had 2 paypal accounts and I wasn't supposed to so paypal told me I had to close one of them. The one I still have open has my own debit card registered to it. I only posted the letter first class post- but I will ensure this is sent recorded delivery

[charitynjw]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

If it were me, & I was going to contact them by recorded delivery, I would also include a Data Protection SAR to obtain all the info they have.

[leclerc]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

Do you have a current letter from you new employees setting out the reasons for your suspension?

[lfc3110]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

no letters from my current employer at all. just told to leave the premises this morning and they would write to me.

[leclerc]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

no letters from my current employer at all. just told to leave the premises this morning and they would write to me.

Is suspension of full pay/half pay?

[bluebottle]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

I had something similar happen to me back in November last year. I had been off sick with what has now proven to be Fibromyalgia. A so-called freelance HR consultant claimed I had been threatening a colleague and employers, which was totally false. He demanded I attended a "formal meeting", which was impossible because of the way the FM was affecting me. ACAS advised he was acting unreasonably and when he was asked to substantiate his allegations, he REFUSED to produce evidence. He claimed that he was a consultant in law and then admitted he was not and didn't know what case or statute law is! Not surprisingly, I was dimissed. Spoke to a solicitor I've known since I was in the police force and he advised pursuing HR consultant, manager and employers through the courts, not an ET, as the FM has left me with limited capability for work and would not have been able to go back to my last job. The DWP Occupational Health people advised I was one point away from not being able to work at all. I've been advised best thing to sue HR consultant for harassment, manager for harassment and employers for breach of contract, harassment and discrimination under the Equality Act 2010. They also stand to cop it under vicarious liability for manager's harassment. There may also be grounds for DWP investigating employer for SSP rebates they claimed. Apparently, bullying and harassment in the workplace is on the increase, but the Wakefield case has sent a lot of employers running home to change their underpants, especially those with cases due to go before ETs or who have recently dismissed employees for speaking out against bullying and harassment in the workplace. I'm lucky in that the onus is on HR consultant, manager and employers to prove their case, due to reversed onus provisions.

Don't think you are beyond hope. Things happen for a reason and, usually, there is a good reason and something better waiting in the wings.

[lfc3110]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

i have no idea if the suspension is on full pay or half pay I was just told to leave- and I was just in that much shock- that I went. I have since asked hr to provide me with the reason for my suspension in writing and to advise me if I am suspended with or without pay. This is all going to take some time and in the meantime I need a job. so do I tell any prospective employees of my gross dismissal? I am tempted to say I have been a mum for the last 6 years and haven't been working- surely no one is going to touch me with a bargepole while this is ongoing?

[leclerc]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

LFC, if the job is on full pay then you do not need to look for another job cos the longer that they take to deal with the issue the longer you get paid to watch Jeremy Kyle

[bluebottle]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

First all your new employer had no legitmate grounds in which to suspend you, any employer would question why your previous employer was expecting you to attend a disciplinary knowing full well you had already started a new job and had already resigned, inform your employer of the letter you sent the previous employer and advise you new employer you had resigned with immediate effect as soon as you heard of possible disciplinary action due to it being completely unreasonable course of action for them to take given the circumstances. Did you point out that the disciplinary was only mentioned after you originally resigned and your manager was a bully towards you at work as well as the circumstances?

It may be worth pointing out that your former Employer can only withdraw their reference and may have breached the data protection act by disclosing so much information.

Also if you had never received a formal written invitiation to the disciplinary inform your new employer of such, as such failure to issue you a formal written invite to a disciplinary meeting, where they have now dismissed you (which is what they probably intended anyway) is unfair dismissal. I would contact acas with the view that you will be taking employment tribunal action, and inform your current employer that you will be appealing the dismissal on grounds of unfair dismissal and harassment. You may also have a claim for slander/libel against your previous employer if it is found the dismissal was unfair.

If I may add to what you say, Teaboy2, all employers know or ought to know that making any statement in a reference that is untrue and/or defamatory or unreasonably declining a reference amounts to defamation. However, since defamation actions are horrendously expensive, the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 is equally effective in addressing this sort of behaviour by employers and it is the employer who has to prove their case, not the employee. If the case is brought under the provisions of Section 3 of the Act, the employer is liable for unlimited damages for harassment on their part and vicariously liability for the manager's conduct. The manager may also have to pay damages out of their own pocket. The employer can, of course, claim any vicarious damages back from the manager.

Be in no doubt, the Wakefield case has marked a change in the way ETs look on bullying and harassment in the workplace. The case has sent employers running home to change their underwear or, at the very least, has them reaching for the Imodium. A lot of employers are, at long last, taking bullying and harassment seriously and are genuinely scared of being hit with a massive award against them. Reminding the OP's former employers of the risks they are now running may jolt them into reversing their decision to act in the way they have, but if not and they cannot meet any damages, the senior management of the OP's former employers may have some explaining to do to the Official Receiver and the Insolvency Service, who can recommend that company directors are disqualified from acting as company directors.

[lfc3110]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

I appreciate that leclerc but I can't assume that I am. I have had no response from hour to my email

[lfc3110]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

How do I go down the bullying or harassment route though without proof? Other than her one outburst at me in public, which I did complain about, I have no other proof. She is a very clever person ensuring her scathing remarks and nastiness to me were not heard by others so its her word against mine- and she is well thought of within the company

[teaboy2]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

How do I go down the bullying or harassment route though without proof? Other than her one outburst at me in public, which I did complain about, I have no other proof. She is a very clever person ensuring her scathing remarks and nastiness to me were not heard by others so its her word against mine- and she is well thought of within the company

LFC contact acas and advise them of the situation as you have described it to us, they will then tell you where you stand and want to can do. I have no doubt their advice will the the same as ours, plus you can ask acas to mediate between you and your previous employer to resolve the situation and no doubt acas will inform them they acted unreasonably and the dismissal was unlawful along with the way they contracted your new employer.

I would also write a letter to your old employer informing them you are well aware of the wakefield ET claim in which an award of £4.4 million compensation was granted to the claiment for harassment and unfair dismissal (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1300084/Doctor-hounded-90k-job-colleagues-bitter-maternity-leave.html), and you will be using that to back up your claim to ET if they do not reverse the unfair dismissal and apologies in writting and contact your new employer informing then the that they had unfairly dismissed you and the disciplinary procedure held against you and expecting you to attend the disciplinary when you have already resign, and that you resignation was not connected to any alledge conduct and was indeed received prior to any allegations becoming known to you or raised by the company.

Als inform them that if your new employer terminates you contract as a result of their unfair dismissal you will be pursuing them via either ET or civil court for breach of protection from harassment act 1997, breach of the data protection act 1998, slander and defamation as a result of them contacting your new employer leading to any such possible termination of employment with current new employer, aswell as for financial deterimant suffered as a result of loss of wages which would be equal to the wages you would have recieved between now and retirment age with annual increases wage/salary taken into account As you planned to have stayed with new employer for the foreseeable furture and likely till retirement age.

That will then give you previous employer to think about when you appeal their decision.

[charitynjw]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

I noticed in the Michalak case (Teaboy's link above) the lion's share of the award was for sex & race discrimination.

[lfc3110]

Re: Handed my notice in but now they are taking me to a disciplinary- Help needed

ok so this is the draft appeal letter - based on what Teaboy2 has advised. Is it ok or a bit too full on?

I have today been informed of YW’s decision to dismiss me and hereby appeal the decision. This has all come as a huge shock to me and I would like to advise you of the situation from my point of view. I handed in my resignation back in Jan 2012 which was accepted by hr, and have an email confirming the acceptance. This then was followed by a letter sent to me inviting me to attend a disciplinary on the 25th January which I was unable to do so as I had a funeral I was attending. I was then told by xxxx in HR, that I was been investigated for unauthorised use of the company credit card although I was not told at that time what transaction or transactions had been made and requested a copy of them. xxx advised me she would send me copies in the post, which to date I still have not received. I had previously already asked xxx if I needed to return to work to work my notice but I was told I didn’t need to. I asked If I could take up new employment with immediate effect and was told I could. I started my new role this week and was extremely shocked today when I was called in and told that your HR had phoned up my new employers, and told them that as I failed to attend a disciplinary yesterday I had been dismissed. I have not received any invite to attend a disciplinary since the one on the 25th Jan nor have I received any copies of the transactions I have alleged to have made. I did however, write a letter to xxx dated 27th Jan advising him that I could have potentially used the card in error, as I opened a new Nat West account in November 2011 and the debit card was very similar in appearance to the credit card and the pin numbers were the same and advised him that if that had been the case then I would of course pay the sums owed back. However, HR have today forwarded me my dismissal letter and it says one of the reasons was ‘attempts to conceal the above activity on the YW procurement card by linking a new email account to the paypal account linked to the card. So this answers my question to some extent about what the transaction or transactions were- it was paypal. I have checked my paypal today and my correct card is registered against it and not the company one. However, last month it came to light by paypal that I had two paypal accounts and should only have one and was told to close one so I am unable to see if I had inadvertently registered the company card against it or my own personal one. The allegation as to changing the email address to conceal the activity is absurd. I had several accounts with various organisations ie facebook, dance.net etc where I had registered with my work email but as I was off work, were not getting any notifications, and so changed them to one of my personal emails. I feel I am the subject of discrimination from YW as I have also been made aware today that one of my colleagues accidently used her procurement card for personal use and when It came to light, she just paid the money back to you without any further action been taken an that came directly from her lips.

So I am appealing on the dismissal for the following. I cannot attend a disciplinary hearing that I did not know about. I have not been sent the documentation as requested concerning the alleged usage of the procurement card and also the evident fact that one of my colleagues has advised me they have done exactly the same as I have been accused of in the past, without any disciplinary been taken against them, which can only mean discrimination to myself. I feel I have been treated unfairly and have done so since I had cause to complain about my boss to her boss last year following a public outburst. She has made my working life extremely difficult and hostile ever since. She was the one that pushed me into the depression. I am also well aware of the Wakefield Employment Tribunal claim in which an award of £4.4 million was granted to the claimant for harassment an unfair dismissal and I will be using this to back up my claim to the ET if you do not reverse the unfair dismissal and apologise in writing and also contact my new employer informing them that you had unfairly dismissed me.

If my new employer terminates my contract as a result your unfair dismissal I will also be pursuing you via either ET or civil court for breach of protection from harassment act 1997, breach of the data protection act 1998, slander and defamation as a result of you contacting my new employer leading to any such possible termination of employment with current new employer, as well as for financial detriment suffered as a result of loss of wages which would be equal to the wages I would have received between now and retirement age with annual increases wage/salary taken into account As I planned to have stayed with new employer for the foreseeable future and likely till retirement age.