unfair treatment at work

[teaboy2]

Re: unfair treatment at work

If they are avoided you, then i would raise a formal written grievance letter and get all the members of staff involved to counter sign the letter. If they ignore that then you have grounds to take legal action for their failure to follow grievance procedures, which they MUST follow when they get a formal grievance letter. Make sure you send it in recorded delivery so they will have to sign for it when the post man gives it to them. That way you have evidence that they received it and they can not deny not having received it.

[Shadowcat]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Hi fivethumbs - sorry I haven't been around but several things happening at once at the mo. I'm so pleased to hear things are going in a positive direction - they couldn't really fail to after so many questionable issues surrounding your employment. The guys have seen you right anyway as they always do.

This is your ball game now and up to you which way to go. As soon as I saw they had put it as a grievance, knew you were onto a winner as to reach tribunal a grievance always has to have taken place so they were even making that easy for you (unbeknown to them maybe?).

Anyway, keep us informed if you need to share thoughts on matters.

[fivethumbsfrank]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Hi fivethumbs - sorry I haven't been around but several things happening at once at the mo. I'm so pleased to hear things are going in a positive direction - they couldn't really fail to after so many questionable issues surrounding your employment. The guys have seen you right anyway as they always do.

This is your ball game now and up to you which way to go. As soon as I saw they had put it as a grievance, knew you were onto a winner as to reach tribunal a grievance always has to have taken place so they were even making that easy for you (unbeknown to them maybe?).

Anyway, keep us informed if you need to share thoughts on matters.

Thanks your advice on keeping feelings out of the picture has been invaluable, inside it feels like you need to stomp and shout but it gets nowhere as you said and is only used as ammo against you, great advice that.
It's funny but I was beginning to think their solicitor was on my side, which only goes to show that if this is not dealt with internally they would be in deep doo doo. It could end with them losing charity status which is not what I want because people in need get some respite from otherwise worse condition, catch 22.

[pinky72]

Re: unfair treatment at work

the girl is from latvia, lost her husband last year, manager feels sorry for her, she often request four days off not as holidays and gets them other staff dont. most of the resident complain she rushes or is too rough with them and not many staff like working with her, so all in all not a great asset, not sure what the deal is. very frustrating. we will just have to keep pushing for the meeting but not holding my breath

[Shadowcat]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Fivethumbs,

I'm sure a good brief would stop them losing charitable status, using the argument you put above whilst also at the same time giving assurances that they have cleaned up their act as employers.

Should things get that far, you could also write a post tribunal letter to that effect to the charity stating that their work as a charity and what they provide in relation to respite should not suffer as a result of the fact that employee issues did need to be addressed, you feel these are separate issues. In your opinion your actions may have enabled them to provide essential better facilities and terms for their employees and you hope any improved working conditions would never be at the deprivation of those that require the intervention of this worthwhile and much needed charity.

Just an idea but it may help you proceed with intent.

[Shadowcat]

Re: unfair treatment at work

pinky, if you have grievances you do the following:

Ask in writing for an informal meeting to discuss "issues". Bullet point these issues with some notes alongside and take with you.

Get management replies to the points confirmed in writing.

If you are satisfied with what they say in their letter, monitor by investing in a diary and write down what happens at work to ensure things have been dealt with satisfactorily.

If you are not satisfied you can escalate your various points to a grievance.

You can contact ACAS at any point in the above.

Simplify your problems and make your issues factual.

If your grievance fails you can request an appeal.

If you do the above, let us know how it's going.

[bluebottle]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Having looked at the posts, as a charity trustee myself, I can understand why the solicitor said what they did after the meeting.

If this case went to an ET, the charity, as the employer, would be liable. A charity, like a company, is not permitted to operate whilst insolvent. The trustees are personally responsible for putting the charity back into solvency from their own funds and the Charity Commissioners have the power to seek a court order to seize property, including homes, if the liquid funds a trustee holds, is insufficient to meet their share of any liability.

The other issue that comes to mind is that the Charity Commissioners have the power to shut a charity down or to remove paid and unpaid officers of a charity (including trustees) and replace them with trustees appointed by the Charity Commissioners.

If this matter can be resolved to both sides' mutual satisfaction, all well and good. If not, then the Charity Commissioners could become involved, if only to save the charity.

[fivethumbsfrank]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Another quick question, during the meeting last Thursday I raised the holiday entitlement thing, they give me 12 days [3 x 11 hour shifts] the law says the entitlement should be 16.8 days but this 'Can' include public holidays if the employer chooses.
I am contracted to work ALL the public holidays when they arise because I work Fridays Sundays and Mondays. static, these do not change I do get paid extra when my days fall on public holidays but because I'm contracted to work those days should they be included as holiday entitlement? because I have to work them anyway, for me it's not a holiday?

Should I write to them to clarify this?

[teaboy2]

Re: unfair treatment at work

When your contracted to work public holidays, you are either paid extra in lieu, and or given an additional day off. Or in somecase both, as some employers via there discretion pay you double time or time and a half for hours worked on bank holidays, whilst also giving you an additional day off.

Also for a full time worker woking 5 days a week the minimum holiday entitlment is 5.6 weeks which is 28 days (its 5.6 times how many days a week you work) - Though this total can include bank holidays, hence why most employers give say 20 days plus bank holidays. So as your working bank holidays, not only are you entitled to extra pay, but your also entitled to an additional day off to ensure the minimum amount of holidays you have per year is not below 28 days (if you work 5 days a week). if you work say 6 days a week, then the minimum holiday entitlement would be (5.6 time 6) 33.6 (likely rounded off to 33 and 1 half day or to 34 days) days per year including bank holidays.

According to your statement that your entitled to 16.8 days, that means your only working 3 days a week - is that correct?

[fivethumbsfrank]

Re: unfair treatment at work

When your contracted to work public holidays, you are either paid extra in lieu, and or given an additional day off. Or in somecase both, as some employers via there discretion pay you double time or time and a half for hours worked on bank holidays, whilst also giving you an additional day off.

Also for a full time worker woking 5 days a week the minimum holiday entitlment is 5.6 weeks which is 28 days (its 5.6 times how many days a week you work) - Though this total can include bank holidays, hence why most employers give say 20 days plus bank holidays. So as your working bank holidays, not only are you entitled to extra pay, but your also entitled to an additional day off to ensure the minimum amount of holidays you have per year is not below 28 days (if you work 5 days a week). if you work say 6 days a week, then the minimum holiday entitlement would be (5.6 time 6) 33.6 (likely rounded off to 33 and 1 half day or to 34 days) days per year including bank holidays.

According to your statement that your entitled to 16.8 days, that means your only working 3 days a week - is that correct?

that's correct 3 days per week 3 x 11 hour shifts 33 hours. when you say time in lieu, not sure what that means, but they are giving me 12 days I work the bank holidays, so them saying my holiday entitlement [including bank holidays is not correct] am I right, this is confusing me a bit, so need it explained in simple terms, they have I believe made a mistake. I get 12 days only.

they think that I get twelve days plus the rest is made up with the bank holiday thing? =16.8 or 17?

[teaboy2]

Re: unfair treatment at work

that's correct 3 days per week 3 x 11 hour shifts 33 hours. when you say time in lieu, not sure what that means, but they are giving me 12 days I work the bank holidays, so them saying my holiday entitlement [including bank holidays is not correct] am I right, this is confusing me a bit, so need it explained in simple terms, they have I believe made a mistake. I get 12 days only.

they think that I get twelve days plus the rest is made up with the bank holiday thing? =16.8 or 17?

Basically paid in lieu is - Overtime isn't usually taken into account when working out holiday pay or paid maternity, paternity or adoption leave. However, it is taken into account when the overtime is guaranteed and you have to work the overtime as part of your contract of employment. Which means your working bank holidays is guaranteed overtime. So they must either pay you an overtime for working bank holidays or give you a day off in lieu which is usually a day at the employers choosing or one that is mutually agreed.

[fivethumbsfrank]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Basically paid in lieu is - Overtime isn't usually taken into account when working out holiday pay or paid maternity, paternity or adoption leave. However, it is taken into account when the overtime is guaranteed and you have to work the overtime as part of your contract of employment. Which means your working bank holidays is guaranteed overtime. So they must either pay you an overtime for working bank holidays or give you a day off in lieu which is usually a day at the employers choosing or one that is mutually agreed.

I do get extra pay when my shifts fall on a bank holiday, does that mean their calculation of my holiday entitlement is correct? bearing in mind I have no choice I have to work them because they always fall on a friday or monday.

[teaboy2]

Re: unfair treatment at work

It sounds like it yes, though 33 hours is basically the same as 4 days per week, at 8.25 hours a day. So you should really be getting 22.4 days holiday including bank holidays. If you want the extra holidays then you can asked to be paid normal rate on bank holidays in exchange for a 1 additonal holiday per bank holiday you work.

Though wait and see what they offer you and see if the contract they gave you was any better holiday wise.

[fivethumbsfrank]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Ok I had a follow up meeting this morning but this time there were four of them, director, finance director, manager [so called] and their solicitor, Me of course and a colleague to take notes.

A lot went on in the meeting, their solicitor who was introduced as 'neutral' started by making an offer [financial] on the proviso that I walk away from my job. He spoke in a context as 'we' meaning the company. I looked straight into His eyes and said I thought you were neutral? He said when I said we I was including 'you' I said I'm not making any offers to myself and I am quite capable of doing my own thinking, this meeting can end right now because I will not consider any offer if it means walking away from my job we can resume when I have my legal rep present. your offer is not up for negotiation as I have never done anything wrong, they said you don't trust the manager. I said that that is a question they should be asking. why is it I don't trust the manager? besides I am not the only one it just happens I am the only one with balls to challenge it.

With that they asked me to leave the room while they confer, I came back in and they offered
me the same financial offer and I can keep my job providing I sign their new contract. I said I will go away and consider it.

I got the same old pleading poverty bit etc, I also got the we are buying new houses bla bla bla and you will be considered for promotion. which is laughable after being expected to walk away. these people just breed anger in people.

Their offer is below what I am owed but I am considering it just to put it behind me. The whole thing is getting tiresome, They did say that the manager and the finance director have been having sleepless nights over the whole issue I told them I have no trouble sleeping at all.:tinysmile_grin_t:

[teaboy2]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Sounds like you may have them by the short and curlies and they know it too. Though obviously i do not know what amount they have offered you, but if it was less then say 75% of what was owed i would decline the offer and negotiate for 85% and see if their willing to raise it their offer closer to the 85% mark and once they get past the 75% mark or meet you half way i would be inclined to accept their offer on on the condition they include clauses in the compromise agreement, where by they agree to sort out the sleeping accomadation and remedy any other issues you had, whilst working for them.