unfair treatment at work

[bluebottle]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Agree 100%, Teaboy. Any compromise offer should be scrutinised by a legal professional before accepting.

[bluebottle]

Re: unfair treatment at work

My understanding of 'companion' rules is that at this stage you can only insist on legal representation in very limited circumstances

http://www.personneltoday.com/articl...ciplinary.html

I have known of an occasion where the appointed 'note-taker, who is supposed to be completely impartial (ie just taking a record of the meeting), was in fact part of the firm's in-house legal team, & in fact was orchestrating the entire meeting, including the preliminary setting-up, choice of venue/time etc, etc.

I've come across freelance HR consultants who have done that and, also, who have been found to be orchestrating bullying campaigns. They don't like TU officals, legal professionals or law enforcement professionals - serving or retired - and throw their toys out of the pram when they are challenged about the BS they spout. The most accurate description I have heard, so far, to describe freelance HR consultants is 'Rent-A-Bully'. And that came from a legal professional!

[fivethumbsfrank]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Just so that we are all on the same page this is the meat and potatoes of the letter they sent me, same as corresponded with Bluebottle via PM.

QUOTE:

Please would you attend a meeting with Mr B [chairman] on 9th feb 2012 at 'address' bla bla bla at 10am

The meeting will be chaired by Mr. C 'COMPANY' Solicitor. to ensure we deal with all the points you wish to raise and give you full opportunity to air your grievances.

you may be accompanied by a trade union official or work colleague. please let me know if you wish to do so and let me have the name of the person you wish to accompany you.

unquote:


So it clearly states that this meeting is about my grievances and not a disciplinary hearing, if it is then I will be very surprised and angry.

I will attend the meeting and keep my cool at all times, if they try to provoke me or the lawyer starts throwing points of law at me I will tell Him He would need to discuss those things with MY legal rep and not me.
I will let them know I have again contacted Acas for advice re this meeting.

I am a bit confused by their letter saying " give you [me] an opportunity to air my grievances" they already know what they are? concrete from my last letter and of course many previous letters and of course the 2 hour interview with my 'new' line manager who is no longer my line manager since writing a statement to confirm the board had instructed her to with hold a copy of the statement that she wrote on my behalf re my grievances that was submitted to the board, the one I haven't seen or signed...... er yeah.

I'm really tired of repeating myself over and over, to me this in itself smacks of harassment.
like silly mind games keeping me going around in circles. it's gone on for more than 5 years enough is enough, but I know I must keep my feelings in check and not allow them to get to me in this meeting. Hopefully I'm wrong and they want to deal with this properly at last, if nothing else they will know by now that I am not going away quietly.

[teaboy2]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Sounds to me they may try and corner you by having their lawyer/solicitor there to point out the legal implications of your grievance and may well be an attempt to mislead (which is my main concern here) you, hence why i think its important you take your own solicitor with you, making it clear that as this is clearly to dicuss the legal points around your grievance, to not be allowed to have your legal representation with you, would be completely unreasonable, given you a litigant in person and not a legal professional yourself. It is therefore important that you be allowed your own legal representive to be present at any meeting where the legal points of your grievance are to no doubt clearly be discussed. If that was not the case then they themselves would not require their own solicitor to be present.

[astraldream]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Would the OP be allowed to tape the meeting if he isnt able to get anyone to attend with him? This would stop any lies afterwards from the employers.

[teaboy2]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Yes but he would have to make a written transcipt of the recoding afterwards, plus he will need the permission of the other parties to record the meeting too, for the transcript of the recording to be used in court.

[fivethumbsfrank]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Sounds to me they may try and corner you by having their lawyer/solicitor there to point out the legal implications of your grievance and may well be an attempt to mislead (which is my main concern here) you, hence why i think its important you take your own solicitor with you, making it clear that as this is clearly to dicuss the legal points around your grievance, to not be allowed to have your legal representation with you, would be completely unreasonable, given you a litigant in person and not a legal professional yourself. It is therefore important that you be allowed your own legal representive to be present at any meeting where the legal points of your grievance are to no doubt clearly be discussed. If that was not the case then they themselves would not require their own solicitor to be present.

Yes I have the same feeling and it is a worry, but if legal points are brought up I will point out that if I was baking a cake I would not ask a guy who mixes cement to advise me on ingredients for my cake, therefore I will not comment or reply on points of law without a legal professional with me and any of these kind of tac tics will be noted for future reference.

I will attend the meeting, if they try to pull strokes with me it will just give me more ammo for later, besides if this solicitor of theirs is worth His salt then He will know better than to try silly games.

The floor in an office does not in any way shape or form constitute proper sleeping facilities I will just keep on reminding them of this I also have two other night workers who are willing to testify to the same if I really need them to along with photographic evidence, they do not have a leg to stand on even if they had a QC at the meeting.

[fivethumbsfrank]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Update:

I went to the meeting, in a nutshell their solicitor asked if I had a figure in mind that I would be willing to settle on to make this go away. I gave them a figure after tax that I would consider, they are going away to discuss and will get back to me within 14 days.

The meeting went well and to be fair their solicitor was very good with me, every point I raised He did not try to make arguments out of it agreeing that the nmw thing is a grey area in this field but also agreed with me that the sleeping arrangements should be adequate. I categorically proved they were not.
They asked me how this could be improved. I gave them my opinions on that, they tried to argue the toss about holiday entitlement, when I asked the colleague I brought in to take notes how much holiday He got, He replied 20 days for 5 days per week full time, both the solicitor and the chairman replied 'oh' I almost said 'DOH!'

So I asked them how, if I work 3 eleven hour shifts does that equate to 12 days per year when the statutory regs clearly state what it should be.

Anyway I was more than fair with the figure I suggested, but of course they will try to knock me down or say we are not offering you anything. if the latter is the case then they will see me in court.

after the meeting their solicitor pulled me outside and said he hopes this will be settled amicably and that this small charity could ill afford to be taken further with this.

they are on the back foot im not going to count my eggs before they are hatched. my suspicious mind still nagging at me that they will try to wriggle out somehow.

All in All I was satisfied with the way things went and I felt confident in the meeting and that is primarily down to the advice and most importantly support you guys here have given me this far saying I appreciate it doesn't come close to describing how grateful I am. thanks guys!

[teaboy2]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Update:

I went to the meeting, in a nutshell their solicitor asked if I had a figure in mind that I would be willing to settle on to make this go away. I gave them a figure after tax that I would consider, they are going away to discuss and will get back to me within 14 days.

The meeting went well and to be fair their solicitor was very good with me, every point I raised He did not try to make arguments out of it agreeing that the nmw thing is a grey area in this field but also agreed with me that the sleeping arrangements should be adequate. I categorically proved they were not.
They asked me how this could be improved. I gave them my opinions on that, they tried to argue the toss about holiday entitlement, when I asked the colleague I brought in to take notes how much holiday He got, He replied 20 days for 5 days per week full time, both the solicitor and the chairman replied 'oh' I almost said 'DOH!'

So I asked them how, if I work 3 eleven hour shifts does that equate to 12 days per year when the statutory regs clearly state what it should be.

Anyway I was more than fair with the figure I suggested, but of course they will try to knock me down or say we are not offering you anything. if the latter is the case then they will see me in court.

after the meeting their solicitor pulled me outside and said he hopes this will be settled amicably and that this small charity could ill afford to be taken further with this.

they are on the back foot im not going to count my eggs before they are hatched. my suspicious mind still nagging at me that they will try to wriggle out somehow.

All in All I was satisfied with the way things went and I felt confident in the meeting and that is primarily down to the advice and most importantly support you guys here have given me this far saying I appreciate it doesn't come close to describing how grateful I am. thanks guys!

Well done Frank for getting through the meeting and getting your points across, it seems from what the solicitor said that the charity are really concerned of the finanical impact this would have should it go further and they obivously know they are in the wrong now.

Hopefully what they offer you is reasonable and that will be the end of the matter, and all the issues you raised will finally be sorted out for good now.

Keep us all updated on how things progress and all the best for the future.

[fivethumbsfrank]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Well done Frank for getting through the meeting and getting your points across, it seems from what the solicitor said that the charity are really concerned of the finanical impact this would have should it go further and they obivously know they are in the wrong now.

Hopefully what they offer you is reasonable and that will be the end of the matter, and all the issues you raised will finally be sorted out for good now.

Keep us all updated on how things progress and all the best for the future.

Thanks, and yes of course I will let you know how it pans out, they also questioned me about the managers false promises etc which I forgot to mention in my last post, that was interesting..I kept my cool and them them truthfully what had occured over the years, their solicitor said well you have discovered through your history working here that you need to take what He says with a pinch of salt...then went on to say He is your line manager and you must report to Him? huh? rewind?

anyway it was all good, just really glad I kept my cool and kept it business like...feelings are not facts.

[teaboy2]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Thanks, and yes of course I will let you know how it pans out, they also questioned me about the managers false promises etc which I forgot to mention in my last post, that was interesting..I kept my cool and them them truthfully what had occured over the years, their solicitor said well you have discovered through your history working here that you need to take what He says with a pinch of salt...then went on to say He is your line manager and you must report to Him? huh? rewind?

anyway it was all good, just really glad I kept my cool and kept it business like...feelings are not facts.

Well its always better to stick to the facts and keep it amicable, rather than to shout and ball. Though strong words in an amicable and calm spoken manner always help too. Which i assume is how you handled the meeting.

[pinky72]

Re: unfair treatment at work

i work in a care home, a girl at our place was leaving to start another job, she has now decided to stay and work both jobs on the understanding she can state the evenings she works(this is 4 per week) the rest of us cant pick when we work. and will get left with the rest, i feel this is unfair, what rights do we have?

[teaboy2]

Re: unfair treatment at work

Unfortunately you don't really have any rights as your under contract which likely states what hours and days you are required to work. Off course this doesn't mean you can not raise a joint grievance where you and your colleagues all sign, stating your feelings about the other girl being allowed to choose her days. But to be honest whatever her personal terms of employment are with the employer is between her and the employer, though if the employer knows your all upset about it they may make some concessions. But at the same time the other girl is likely to feel isolated at that you are all against her as a result, so before making a fomal grievance i would suggest raising it informally with an informal meeting with the employers HR department or your manager, making your thoughts on the matter clear.

[pinky72]

Re: unfair treatment at work

we have been trying to get a meeting with the owner regarding poor management issues since 12 december, brought up at meeting with witnesses and via letter to the owner, they are just avoiding us now

[charitynjw]

Re: unfair treatment at work

The question which springs to mind here is "why would an employer grant favourable terms to one of a group of similarly-employed persons?".
Favouritism?
Or could it be 'reasonable adjustments for a protected characteristic'?