Disciplined 3 weeks after they knew it happened

[charitynjw]

Re: Disciplined 3 weeks after they knew it happened

From VOSA

https://online.businesslink.gov.uk/T...urs_0511_2.pdf

"Enforcement and penalties
Fixed penalties and deposits
Following the Road Safety Act 2006, fixed penalties and deposits were introduced during 2009. Infringing drivers with verifiable UK addresses are, in the most routine cases, dealt with by means of a fixed penalty, which can be considered by the driver for up to 28 days. Drivers without a verifiable address are asked to pay a deposit equal to the fixed penalty and further driving is prohibited pending receipt of that payment. VOSA can still take cases to court if it is deemed necessary.
Enforcement powers and sanctions
Powers
Legislation has provided authorised VOSA examiners with powers that include:
u the power to inspect vehicles;
u the power to prohibit and direct vehicles;
u powers relating to the investigation of possible breaches of regulations; and
u the power to instigate, conduct and appear in proceedings at a magistrates’ court.
Sanctions
Action taken against drivers’ hours and tachograph rules infringements is largely determined by legislation, and includes the following:
u Verbal warnings
Minor infringements that appear to enforcement staff to have been committed either accidentally
or due to the inexperience of the driver/operator and are isolated instances may be dealt with by
means of a verbal warning. This will include a clarification of the infringement and an explanation
of the consequences of continued infringement."

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Disciplined 3 weeks after they knew it happened

"
by Naomi Cunningham • Michael Reed

Reinstatement and re-engagement

19 December 2007 / Naomi

All employment lawyers know that orders for reinstatement (getting your old job back) and re-engagement (getting another job with your former employer) are extremely rare. To some extent this has probably become self-fulfilling: everyone knows that these orders are rare, so hardly anyone bothers to apply for them. That is part of the reason they are so rare.
In fact, it is very often a good idea to try for re-employment (employment lawyers tend to use this term to cover reinstatement or re-engagement). There are two main reasons. The first is that it is something that, as a rule, employers really hate. They hate it so much that a credible application for re-employment will often have a marked upwards influence on offers of settlement.
The other reason is that if re-employment is ordered, the claimant is entitled to be compensated in full for all her lost earnings from dismissal to the date of re-employment: the statutory limit does not apply. Where losses to the date of the hearing exceed the statutory limit, therefore, an application for re-employment should always be vigorously pursued unless it is clear that it is hopeless.
Bear in mind that on an order for re-engagement, the tribunal has a wide discretion to order re-engagement on such terms as it considers just. So take the widespread assumption that re-employment is impossible if there has been any significant contributory fault with a large pinch of salt. Where there has been misconduct, for example, but not sufficient to justify dismissal, there is no reason why the tribunal should not order re-engagement to a lower-paid post, or with a disciplinary warning.
Do not rule out re-employment just because it is not practicable for the claimant actually to return to work, either: re-engagement with immediate medical retirement will sometimes be an option worth considering."


This is from this site Reinstatement and re-engagement | Employment Tribunal Claims


One of the authors, Naomi Cunningham, is a barrsiter specialising in employment rights who is the author of several books on the subject widely used by law centre workers and trade unionists.

[postggj]

Re: Disciplined 3 weeks after they knew it happened

by Naomi Cunningham • Michael Reed

Reinstatement and re-engagement

19 December 2007 / Naomi

THANKS FOR THE LINK

ME THINKS I WILL GO TO AMAZON AND GET THAT BOOK

I TEND TO USE SELWYNS AND SMITH AND WOODS BUT THE MORE IN THE ARMOURY CAN ONLY BE POSITIVE

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Disciplined 3 weeks after they knew it happened

Her book http://http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1903307708?tag=emplotribucla-21&camp=1406&creative=6394&linkCode=as1&creativeAS IN=1903307708&adid=0P39W3DGZRXJ1SD0CK4V&

has the subtitle, 'tactics and precedents', it is practically focussed to help workers with varying levels of knowledge and legal training to advise clients / members and run cases in the Employment Tribunal, it is less a guide to the theory of the law in this area.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
This

Employment Law: An Advisers Handbook: Amazon.co.uk: Tamara Lewis: Books

and this


Employment Tribunal Procedure: A Users Guide to Tribunals and Appeals: Amazon.co.uk: Jeremy McMullen, Rebecca Tuck, Betsan Criddle: Books

are also good, practical and user-friendly - as are most of the publications from this 'Legal Action Group' series

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Disciplined 3 weeks after they knew it happened

Gailmadras, if you want to go down the route of trying to get your old job back, before filing a claim in the Employment Tribunal, you should write to your former employers setting out your position, stating that you have not had the chance to put your case, that no meeting was held to discuss the matter and that your view is that correct procedure was not followed; that your view is that dismissal is too harsh a sanction and not in accordance with the guidance set out above (whihc you should enclose a copy of) and that you will be bringing a claim to the Employment Tribunal in which you will seek reinstatement, however before issuing the claim you are contacting them to suggest the possibility of a negotiaiton meeting between them and yourself to try and resolve the matter without litigation. Make sure you send this letter by recorded delivery.

If they agree to such a meeting, make sure you are accompanied (as you have a right to be), that your companion takes a verbatim note, and that you prepare a script for the meeting and take copies of any relevant reference material, such as the guidance posted above on tachograph errors.

If they refuse to discuss or meet with you, you can argue that correct procedures have not been followed and that you have had no alternative but to go to tribunal.

You have three months from the date of dismissal to start a claim in the employment tribunal, you commence by filling in a Form ET1, which can now be submitted online.

[gailmadras]

Re: Disciplined 3 weeks after they knew it happened

Thanks for all your replies. I was not suspended. I was allowed to drive the lorry after this had happened and after the disciplinary. As I have already said they knew of this at the time it was happening because they rang me to see where I was, but decided not to take action until 19 days later.
I had what I thought was an investigatory meeting which they have referred to in their notes as this but in fact it was a disciplinary meeting. As it was 19 days previous I cannot remember what exactly caused me to take the card out, whether it was for a break or just to nip to the toilet. I had been working long hours 9 days without a day off and I had worked 18 hours on the previous day. By the time I was disciplined I had worked 30 days out of 32 and they are asking me to remember what happened 19 days ago. ( I was on the way to Hamburg by the way), I left the hotel at around 6am and was told I was expected to be there at around 4.15pm on the same day.

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Disciplined 3 weeks after they knew it happened

Surely this is in breach of the European Working Time Directive ?

[The Debt Star]

Re: Disciplined 3 weeks after they knew it happened

sounds to me there is more to this than meets the eye. have they dismissed any others recently? have there been any layoffs? if so, what ages were these others? is tyere any other motive you can think of?

[shell]

Re: Disciplined 3 weeks after they knew it happened

I'm a bit confused here. Why did you remove the tacho? There is no need to remove it. All you needed to do was put it onto rest and it would automatically register when you start work again. Also if it's during your working day and you remove your tacho for a break, not only will responsible employers get rather miffed, but the police or VOSA wouldn't be too happy about it either. In fact if you are driving legal, you shouldn't need to remove your tacho all week.

[shell]

Re: Disciplined 3 weeks after they knew it happened

Sorry, have just reread your posts and can see why you removed your tacho. You were obviously not following the driving time directive and I have no doubt you were pushed to do this by the company you worked for. Maybe you should ask them why it's acceptable to break the rules when it suits them but not when it doesn't.

[gailmadras]

Re: Disciplined 3 weeks after they knew it happened

Very small company 8 people working there. Nobody else has been fired. I was under severe pressure to get to Hamburg in time ( we work to very tight timelines ) I was just so stressed throughout the whole journey. It was a mistake. They are saying I was intent on deceiving/defrauding. I have worked for this company for 8 years.