Errands at work

[Pacific]

Quick question..

What is the law on having employees run personal errands not in their job description?

For example a manager getting a 16 yr old employee to leave the store premises during work hours in which he works to get her and another employee lunch from McDonald's?

The employee in question is a vegetarian and specifically says he doesn't want to buy meat for anyone but is laughed off and told to go get the chicken wraps and whatever else. The employee does this because they don't want to be further ridiculed or lose the job. Surely this isn't right?

[echat11]

It's not in his / her terms and conditions of employment, so they have no right to expect the employee to fetch food or any other tasks that are not part of his / her employment contract. If they persist it could be a case of 'bullying'.

If the employee is going to McDonalds during lunch time and he / her asks would they like something, then that is a different story.

He / she needs to raise the concerns informally, if that doesn't work then raise a formal grievance in writing, the management should arrange a meeting with HR present.

https://www.acas.org.uk/grievance-pr...e-step-by-step

ULA

[Pacific]

My son was dismissed for gross misconduct after spending a customers credit note, and rightly so. But it's not in character for him he's a smart boy straight A student initially loved his job and hardworking.

Truth is this was going on and he found it stressful working there. He's not eaten meat for 7 years since we became a vegan/vegetarian/pescatarian household. He's fine eating out with mates whom eat meat but he always orders the veggie option for himself and we don't bring real meat into our home, only plant based or occasionally seafood.

The manager and another member of staff whom is very friendly with the manager both would tell him to go get them McDonald's and tell him what they want which was meat products, initially he said no but they laughed it off and he felt he had to.

He never went there for himself but they did tell him to get something for himself and each time he got some fries for himself.

The manager would also call him on weekdays when he was in college asking him if he can do overtime and come close the store for her when she knew he was in college. He had literally started work there and she'd leave him to close the store by himself. Great of her for trusting in his capability but he'd just turned 16 and it was his 1st job so i don't think she should have. He did ask for overtime but during holidays only and she started calling him regularly during college.

He's highly intelligent and had all A's and above when leaving school with Gcses, and has gotten only A's and distinctions in his coursework since he started college, just before the credit note incident he had gotten a C for the 1st time ever. He was overworked and stressed and it was due to her not letting him do the job he signed up for instead sending him for takeaways and calling him in after college leaving him with no time for studying.

I don't want to make a big deal of it but don't think she should get away with it when he has paid the price, I want to make a complaint about it and bring it to her employers attention so she can too face the consequences.

[echat11]

Write A Formal Complaint to the CEO / Head Office / HR -

Deleted.

[jaguarsuk]

Personally my view is that sometimes things are best left in the past and move on, he was in the wrong in terms of what he was dismissed for.

Had he been dismissed for something subjective I would be more inclined to say he might have some sort grievance, but spending a customers credit note (I assume) without their permission isn't subjective.

[Pacific]

ECHAT11 he didn't work at McDonald's he worked at a different non-food related store in the same retail park that McDonald's was located in and she'd sometimes send him there to get her lunch.
But your right I'm going to find out the head office email of the company he worked at and send a complaint.

JAGUARSUK your right things are best left in the past sometimes and what he did was very wrong believe me he knows it its very out of character for him. I don't like ongoing problems it creates stress and I would rather not carry this on with them and be done with it, but my son has been affected by this and I believe she in part was the cause of it and gets away with her behaviour when he has been accountable for his.

I will write an initial complaint exposing her behaviour but after that won't carry it on, its about bringing it to their attention and her being accountable for how she treats her staff and I can achieve that by just one written complaint so I'll leave it after that and hope she is disciplined also.

[des8]

You might find complaining about her might have unexpected consequences.

She won't admit to doing anything wrong and it will just bring his misdemeanour to the attention of CEO, and that might lead to that matter being more vigorously pursued.
That will be more stress if nothing else.

Your son has learned a lot of lessons, he's been affected because of his own actions and because of others.
Hopefully he will not act improperly again, but at the same time has learnt how to deal with disciplinary matters, and how to deal with bullying & banter

I would just let it go

[echat11]

You might find complaining about her might have unexpected consequences.

She won't admit to doing anything wrong and it will just bring his misdemeanour to the attention of CEO, and that might lead to that matter being more vigorously pursued.
That will be more stress if nothing else.

Your son has learned a lot of lessons, he's been affected because of his own actions and because of others.
Hopefully he will not act improperly again, but at the same time has learnt how to deal with disciplinary matters, and how to deal with bullying & banter

I would just let it go

Yep, all depends on whether the OP is interested in stamping out such behaviour that his son was subjected too, through no fault of his own. Bullying in the work place is awful, especially when you think you can't do anything about it.

[jaguarsuk]

Yep, all depends on whether the OP is interested in stamping out such behaviour that his son was subjected too, through no fault of his own. Bullying in the work place is awful, especially when you think you can't do anything about it.

It may have been in his job description that he is 'required to carry out any other duties as instructed by your line manager.' or similar. If that's the case, being sent to get lunch is part of his role if his manager chooses it to be. Therefore while it isn't the best use of his time and therefore not the best leadership decision, it wouldn't be bullying.

Calling him to ask him to do extra shifts at that age is very common, my daughter's are now a little older than the OP's son, but started working at 16 and both attending college experienced the same. Again this isn't bullying and at first like my daughters I'm sure he felt he couldn't say no, but once they do for the first time they have learnt a very important life lesson.

I also wouldn't say being given the responsibility of closing the store would be bullying either, it shows a level of trust that ultimately has been proven to be unwarranted. Until he decided to spend the credit note it would have looked very good on his CV and/or UCAS application.

JAGUARSUK your right things are best left in the past sometimes and what he did was very wrong believe me he knows it its very out of character for him. I don't like ongoing problems it creates stress and I would rather not carry this on with them and be done with it, but my son has been affected by this and I believe she in part was the cause of it and gets away with her behaviour when he has been accountable for his.

I know he is your son and you want to see the best in him, but the manager didn't play a part in him deciding to take a credit note and use it to buy things for his friends.

If it was a culture in the store that everyone does it and he's the only one being caught that's different, but being asked to go to get someone's lunch doesn't lead a reasonable person to believe what is essentially theft is acceptable.

If that manager also conducted the disciplinary process that saw your son dismissed it still isn't that person at fault.

As I have said above, it's not the best use of an employees time for the company and I personally wouldn't ask someone reporting to me to do it because I want their time spent more wisely. However if his job description facilitated it any complaint will fall on deaf ears.

And in the event that his job description doesn't cover it, what do you think the outcome will be?

If you think it'll be any sort of disciplinary action then unless the manager is already on some sort of warning or in a a disciplinary process for previous misdemeanours you might be disappointed, the chances are that the regional manager on their next visit to the store will simply have an informal discussion with the manager to educate them on what is the best use of employee time.

[echat11]

'It may have been in his job description that he is 'required to carry out any other duties as instructed by your line manager.' or similar. If that's the case, being sent to get lunch is part of his role if his manager chooses it to be. Therefore while it isn't the best use of his time and therefore not the best leadership decision, it wouldn't be bullying.'

Sorry, 'other duties' wouldn't refer to get lunch for the boss. If you go by that, then their is nothing to stop the employee being a 'glorified slave / personal assistant'. Can you get my lunch?, can you take my clothes to the dry cleaners?, can you do my shopping?, Can you take my kids to school? I can guarantee that 'other duties' doesn't mean what you are implying.

'Calling him to ask him to do extra shifts at that age is very common, my daughter's are now a little older than the OP's son, but started working at 16 and both attending college experienced the same. Again this isn't bullying and at first like my daughters I'm sure he felt he couldn't say no, but once they do for the first time they have learnt a very important life lesson.'

I been asked to do that and asked others to do that, but I always was fine with colleagues saying 'no'.

'I also wouldn't say being given the responsibility of closing the store would be bullying either, it shows a level of trust that ultimately has been proven to be unwarranted. Until he decided to spend the credit note it would have looked very good on his CV and/or UCAS application.'

There would be rules in place regards 'closing the store', foremost being insurance considerations etc if things were to go wrong, I can think of plenty of other things.

[jaguarsuk]

'It may have been in his job description that he is 'required to carry out any other duties as instructed by your line manager.' or similar. If that's the case, being sent to get lunch is part of his role if his manager chooses it to be. Therefore while it isn't the best use of his time and therefore not the best leadership decision, it wouldn't be bullying.'

Sorry, 'other duties' wouldn't refer to get lunch for the boss. If you go by that, then their is nothing to stop the employee being a 'glorified slave / personal assistant'. Can you get my lunch?, can you take my clothes to the dry cleaners?, can you do my shopping?, Can you take my kids to school? I can guarantee that 'other duties' doesn't mean what you are implying.

'Calling him to ask him to do extra shifts at that age is very common, my daughter's are now a little older than the OP's son, but started working at 16 and both attending college experienced the same. Again this isn't bullying and at first like my daughters I'm sure he felt he couldn't say no, but once they do for the first time they have learnt a very important life lesson.'

I been asked to do that and asked others to do that, but I always was fine with colleagues saying 'no'.

'I also wouldn't say being given the responsibility of closing the store would be bullying either, it shows a level of trust that ultimately has been proven to be unwarranted. Until he decided to spend the credit note it would have looked very good on his CV and/or UCAS application.'

There would be rules in place regards 'closing the store', foremost being insurance considerations etc if things were to go wrong, I can think of plenty of other things.

Other duties means anything the line manager chooses it to be and is purposely put in to a job description to allow for any task that hasn't been thought of by the person writing the description to fall within it. Most managers as I said would value their employees time more in their workplace than going getting their lunch or laundry, but others won't. It certainly isn't bullying and the offer of him getting food for himself demonstrates there was no malicious intent.

There nothing to say that had the OP son said 'no' that there would have been any negative response, we'll never know. Being asked to work additional hours isn't bullying.

Those rules are for the manager not the OP son and the consequences of something going awry would have been the manager as well. It most definitely is not bullying to give an employee extra responsibility if you feel they can handle it and warrant it regardless of how long they have been employed.

[echat11]

Other duties means anything the line manager chooses it to be and is purposely put in to a job description to allow for any task that hasn't been thought of by the person writing the description to fall within it. Most managers as I said would value their employees time more in their workplace than going getting their lunch or laundry, but others won't. It certainly isn't bullying and the offer of him getting food for himself demonstrates there was no malicious intent.

There nothing to say that had the OP son said 'no' that there would have been any negative response, we'll never know. Being asked to work additional hours isn't bullying.

Those rules are for the manager not the OP son and the consequences of something going awry would have been the manager as well. It most definitely is not bullying to give an employee extra responsibility if you feel they can handle it and warrant it regardless of how long they have been employed.

Nothing to add to my previous post.

[Manxman]

I think I'd be inclined to think long and hard before making any sort of formal complaint to the CEO about this? Sending a 16 year old junior out to get a manager a MacDonalds from the same retail site - whether the junior is vegetarian or not - doesn't necessarily amount to bullying. I think a sense of proportion is required. Sending off knee-jerk bullying allegations is unlikely to be the best way of dealing with this.

Personally, I'd be much more comcerned about the manager contacting my son while he's at college to come into work and close the store for them. To me that is definitely overstepping the mark...

[Pacific]

I've decided not to do anything about it, just so much going on right now that I don't want another issue added to it. The manager is not professional but with everything else we have to deal with I don't want to make this our problem also. I do hope someone stands up to her in future and she learns to treat her staff better.

I'll also have to teach my son to say no even if the person is his boss and overbearing. They're short staffed there because she keeps hiring and firing people. Another young girl was employed same day as my son and was let go after the 3 months but his contracted was renewed. Very few people stay on as long term there if she takes a dislike to them, she always seems to be interviewing new people.

[Manxman]

... I'll also have to teach my son to say no even if the person is his boss and overbearing...

No. You need to teach your son to be assertive when it is appropriate to behave in such a manner (ie when his manager is clearly in the wrong). To be honest, your son complaining (and you supporting him in doing so) about being sent out to get a meal for his manager is never going to end well and you are doing your son no service in supporting him - vegetarian or not.

Many years ago - when I was much older than your son is now - my boss, who had an artificial leg - sent me out to get some elastoplast to effect some much needed temporary repairs. It wasn't in the T&Cs of my employment. but I did it. Not because he was disabled, but because he was my boss and he asked me to do so.

Your son is getting paid to do a job. What's the problem?

Incidentally, your username, Pacific, sort of undermines your point, perhaps it should be Confrontational...