Suspended pending investigation into gross misconduct - advice needed

[kcik]

Hi everyone

I am new here and really need some help.

On Tuesday I was informed I was being suspended on full pay whilst an investigation into alleged gross misconduct is carried out. I have been with my company for 4.5 years.

This has come as a total shock and follows a long period of sickness absence due to stress, prior to this I was having lots of personal issues.

As it stands the allegations have been put to me in a letter, they relate to dishonesty relating to my work prior to going off sick, failing to follow reasonable instructions, bringing company into disrepute and alleged aggressive behaviour (which I strongly refute). The letter advises I will be invited to a meeting soon.

I am seriously anxious and worried, as I don't fully know the extent of what has been uncovered. But I suspect my manager went on some kind of fishing expedition when I initially went off sick and probably became aware of things I had not done, which is obviously my fault. I cannot deny I was behind with work, due to stress and personal issues at the time, but I was never deliberately dishonest as such.

Prior to this I had never had any form of issue - no disciplinary proceedings, warnings or performance issues whatsoever. In fact I always received extremely good feedback and passed all yearly reviews with flying colours. So as far as my previous record, it could be said it was unblemished. This changed recently due to personal issues, most of which my manager was aware of, I just wish I had recognised it sooner and declared myself unwell before it got so bad that I fell so far behind.

In all seriousness I feel like I cannot endure whats to come. I am pretty sure I will be dismissed, and I am prepared to accept that as a consequence for any genuine wrongdoing. My mental health is very fragile of late and I have elderly parents to look after, so I am wondering if I have any options in terms of asking for a quick and dignified exit and a neutral reference instead of going through the process. I have worked very hard to get to where I am, and the thought of being dismissed for gross misconduct is devastating and I worry if I will ever be able to get a job again. I will also face major financial implications and probably lose my home so it is unbearably stressful.

Does anyone have any experience of attempting to initiate settlement discussions themselves? feel like perhaps emailing the HR contact and asking for a protected conversation and explain I would rather just mutually come to a swift end but I don't know if this is 'normal' or if it will look bad on me. I could also see proceedings through until the end, appeal and then approach ACAS but again I have serious doubts if I can endure all of that.

I do have a union rep, although she has not been particularly helpful so far. She has advised until the meeting there is nothing she or I can do - and that may be true but I was hoping for some kind of advice or talk about things just to prepare me. I have never ever been in this situation before.

Any advice would be so welcome, thanks everyone x

[echat11]

Hi KCIK

Things always seem a lot worse then they actually are, so try not to worry. I think the union should be more supportive and involved.

You say something interesting 'This changed recently due to personal issues, most of which my manager was aware of, I just wish I had recognised it sooner and declared myself unwell before it got so bad that I fell so far behind.'

If your manager was aware and they did nothing to help you, there was no support forthcoming from him / her, then I would raise a Formal Grievance in writing. See where you go from there (it might help you if you potentially want to resign, although they may see in hindsight that they could have done more). The manager could have intervening earlier so you didn't struggle at work. That's part of management, HR to intervene before an employee reaches the point where you currently are.

ULA No doubt will take a look and advise.Many thanks.

[kcik]

Hi KCIK

Things always seem a lot worse then they actually are, so try not to worry. I think the union should be more supportive and involved.

You say something interesting 'This changed recently due to personal issues, most of which my manager was aware of, I just wish I had recognised it sooner and declared myself unwell before it got so bad that I fell so far behind.'

If your manager was aware and they did nothing to help you, there was no support forthcoming from him / her, then I would raise a Formal Grievance in writing. See where you go from there (it might help you if you potentially want to resign, although they may see in hindsight that they could have done more). The manager could have intervening earlier so you didn't struggle at work. That's part of management, HR to intervene before an employee reaches the point where you currently are.

ULA No doubt will take a look and advise.Many thanks.

Thank you so much for your reply.

I have considered raising a grievance, mainly because I had an incident during my time off where I tried to ring and speak to my manager and they were very rude to me. At the time, it felt like they were really annoyed at me and it seems I was right as I imagine they had begun their fishing expedition by then. I called the union rep immediately after and they basically said 'dont worry about it, its unfortunate it happened but just try not to dwell'. I had some kind of meeting with another manager and HR a few weeks later, a sort of 'keep in touch, see how we can get you back' kind of thing and I mentioned this incident then and feeling like I wasn't being supported by my manager very well during my time off. I have not heard anything back from it but I do realise this wouldn't count as me raising a grievance, but it could at least mean something that I raised this before knowing I was going to be suspended.

I am worried if I do so now, it would just look like a knee jerk reaction to being suspended and trying to blame my manager? Which could backfire on me. I also do not know realistically what my manager could have done differently prior to me being off, so I am not sure what I could say there...I suppose I have to take responsibility for not recognising what was going on sooner.

[echat11]

You say 'I just wish I had recognised it sooner and declared myself unwell before it got so bad that I fell so far behind.'
If your manager was aware, which seems to be the case, then I assume they could of 'strategized' so that you did not fall behind, at least they should have monitored the situation more closely. I think you are putting too much of a burden on what you should of done. It's a fact, your manager was 'aware'.

Wait for ULA to post, she'll be able to put things into perspective.

[kcik]

You say 'I just wish I had recognised it sooner and declared myself unwell before it got so bad that I fell so far behind.'
If your manager was aware, which seems to be the case, then I assume they could of 'strategized' so that you did not fall behind, at least they should have monitored the situation more closely. I think you are putting too much of a burden on what you should of done. It's a fact, your manager was 'aware'.

That is a good point. Perhaps that is something I can assert during the meetings I am going to face, as my mitigation?

Do you have any idea or thoughts about trying to end the situation amicably? I keep reading about compromise agreements and protected conversations and wonder if I need to do that as I can't stand to be dismissed for GM and have so much to lose. If I can just mutually agree to walk with a neutral reference I would do that in a heartbeat.

[echat11]

That is a good quote. Perhaps that is something I can assert during the meetings I am going to face, as my mitigation?

Do you have any idea or thoughts about trying to end the situation amicably? I keep reading about compromise agreements and protected conversations and wonder if I need to do that as I can't stand to be dismissed for GM and have so much to lose. If I can just mutually agree to walk with a neutral reference I would do that in a heartbeat.

I think ULA is best dealing with that specific aspect. Try to do things to take your mind off things i.e. baking, crossword, puzzles etc, over thinking stuff won't help.

[kcik]

I think ULA is best dealing with that specific aspect. Try to do things to take your mind off things i.e. baking, crossword, puzzles etc, over thinking stuff won't help.

Thank you. Ive never experienced anything like this in my life. I am totally overwhelmed.

[ULA]

Hi kcik sorry I have been offline all day and I appreciate that this is very stressful situation for you.

I do have some quick questions which would be useful information to have:

1. How long were you off sick for and was the stress work related i.e. was that on your Fitness to Work certificate?
2. When did you return back to work?
3. Was there any support mechanism put in place for your return to work e.g. phased return to work, review by occupational health before your return etc?

Now to the suspension, at the moment it is purely an investigation into the allegations as set out in the letter you received. It will be the outcome of the investigation that will determine whether any further action will be taken or not. If further action is to be taken then this mean your employer will need to follow either their own disciplinary procedure, if they have one, or the ACAS guidelines to ensure a fair and reasonable process has been undertaken.

It seems like there may be some mitigating circumstances and there are certainly several things that you can raise as part of the meeting you will have with the person carrying out the investigation. I suggest you spend time between now and the meeting creating some notes with dates and times preferably in regard to when you spoke to your manager initially and if you had subsequent discussions about your issues before you went off sick. The fact that there was no offer of support should be mentioned despite the obvious difficulties you were having in copy at work - behaviour that was clearly out of the norm given your history of "always received extremely good feedback and passed all yearly reviews with flying colours". The incidents whilst you were off sick also need to be set out with dates and times and also you had an expectation of some follow up from your "keep in touch" meeting but again nothing and no offer of support.

Work on these notes for short periods at a time allowing yourself to time to do things you enjoy and take your mind off what is effectively a waiting period.

In regard to any protected conversation/just resiging, I would make the point that at the moment the invesitgation is still underway, they have not had the meeting with you yet and you do not know what the outcome will be and whether any action will actually be taken.

I hope that this has provided you with some guidance but if you have any further questions please come back to this thread and ask.

[Guest]

EChat said "I think the union should be more supportive and involved"


I hesitated to reply but I have experienced a situation involving my daughter (M) who was a police controller, off sick when she was assaulted by a neighbour, and later shouted at the police investigator who treated M as though she was the instigator.

The investigator complained about M, her employer told her they were looking at charging her with misconduct. She was charged, lost her case and left her job because she could no longer work for employers who considered rudeness to a fellow employee to be more serious than assault by a member of the public.

The misconduct investigation involved M's entire twelve year career. HR trawled through everything looking for evidence that could be used against M and obtained statements from other employees. In the end, all they could find was the rudeness complaint.

From experience, it was a mistake to rely on the union rep, who seemed supportive but whose advice ultimately lost M's case. She should have consulted a solicitor, if not at the offset then certainly when she was actually charged. (and probably not the union solicitor). She didn't know that HR would trawl through all her employment records but the union rep should have known, and warned her. The union rep advised her not to raise 'mitigating circumstances', bad mistake. After she lost her case and left her employment, she should have consulted a solicitor with a view to suing her employer.

best wishes

[kcik]

EChat said "I think the union should be more supportive and involved"


I hesitated to reply but I have experienced a situation involving my daughter (M) who was a police controller, off sick when she was assaulted by a neighbour, and later shouted at the police investigator who treated M as though she was the instigator.

The investigator complained about M, her employer told her they were looking at charging her with misconduct. She was charged, lost her case and left her job because she could no longer work for employers who considered rudeness to a fellow employee to be more serious than assault by a member of the public.

The misconduct investigation involved M's entire twelve year career. HR trawled through everything looking for evidence that could be used against M and obtained statements from other employees. In the end, all they could find was the rudeness complaint.

From experience, it was a mistake to rely on the union rep, who seemed supportive but whose advice ultimately lost M's case. She should have consulted a solicitor, if not at the offset then certainly when she was actually charged. (and probably not the union solicitor). She didn't know that HR would trawl through all her employment records but the union rep should have known, and warned her. The union rep advised her not to raise 'mitigating circumstances', bad mistake. After she lost her case and left her employment, she should have consulted a solicitor with a view to suing her employer.

best wishes

It does seem like pot luck doesn't it? I think, if after the first meeting I attend, I am not convinced the union rep is helping I might have to consider asking the branch to escalate to someone else or perhaps ask for legal help if possible

[Guest]

It does seem like pot luck doesn't it? I think, if after the first meeting I attend, I am not convinced the union rep is helping I might have to consider asking the branch to escalate to someone else or perhaps ask for legal help if possible

As I recall, M didn't actually attend any "meetings" other than interviews by HR, which included M plus her union rep on the one side v HR and two managers on the other side. After all the interviews were conducted, then the decision was made to charge her and there was no further contact until M received the "evidence" about two weeks before the hearing. All told it was eight months from when M was told that she was being investigated for misconduct to the date of the hearing, then a further 4 weeks to her appeal (which she also lost).

Is your union rep a fellow employee? Gross misconduct is a sackable offence....EChat11 is totally correct, they need to be more supportive and involved.

[kcik]

As I recall, M didn't actually attend any "meetings" other than interviews by HR, which included M plus her union rep on the one side v HR and two managers on the other side. After all the interviews were conducted, then the decision was made to charge her and there was no further contact until M received the "evidence" about two weeks before the hearing. All told it was eight months from when M was told that she was being investigated for misconduct to the date of the hearing, then a further 4 weeks to her appeal (which she also lost).

Is your union rep a fellow employee? Gross misconduct is a sackable offence....EChat11 is totally correct, they need to be more supportive and involved.

Yes they do work there, she is the branch secretary.

Sorry If I am misunderstanding but those are the meetings I refer to. There will be an initial one, hopefully soon, where I imagine I will first be asked all about the allegations. It will only be during/after that I will gauge how the union rep is helping me. Right now, I suppose there isnt much they can do as nothing is really known. Does that make sense? Theyve said we need to find out exactly what I am being accused of first.

If I feel they are not helping or supportive I will have to think of something else..possibly legal representation.

[Guest]

Yes they do work there, she is the branch secretary.

..
Theyve said we need to find out exactly what I am being accused of first.

In M's case, she was notified by e-mail that misconduct was being considered. No reason was given. She forwarded the e-mail to her union branch Secretary who came back within 48 hours with the information that this stemmed from a complaint made by a fellow employee and attached was a copy of the complaint.

Do you think it is reasonable for you to go to a meeting /interview totally unprepared and not knowing what you are accused of? How can you answer any questions if you have not had the opportunity to prepare?

[echat11]

EChat said "I think the union should be more supportive and involved"


I hesitated to reply but I have experienced a situation involving my daughter (M) who was a police controller, off sick when she was assaulted by a neighbour, and later shouted at the police investigator who treated M as though she was the instigator.

The investigator complained about M, her employer told her they were looking at charging her with misconduct. She was charged, lost her case and left her job because she could no longer work for employers who considered rudeness to a fellow employee to be more serious than assault by a member of the public.

The misconduct investigation involved M's entire twelve year career. HR trawled through everything looking for evidence that could be used against M and obtained statements from other employees. In the end, all they could find was the rudeness complaint.

From experience, it was a mistake to rely on the union rep, who seemed supportive but whose advice ultimately lost M's case. She should have consulted a solicitor, if not at the offset then certainly when she was actually charged. (and probably not the union solicitor). She didn't know that HR would trawl through all her employment records but the union rep should have known, and warned her. The union rep advised her not to raise 'mitigating circumstances', bad mistake. After she lost her case and left her employment, she should have consulted a solicitor with a view to suing her employer.

best wishes

I agree 100% with your post / posts. Unions might be great regards the collective, but are 'pants' when it comes to the individual. I have much experience with Unions; there are good reps / unions but very few who will watch your back.

[kcik]

In M's case, she was notified by e-mail that misconduct was being considered. No reason was given. She forwarded the e-mail to her union branch Secretary who came back within 48 hours with the information that this stemmed from a complaint made by a fellow employee and attached was a copy of the complaint.

Do you think it is reasonable for you to go to a meeting /interview totally unprepared and not knowing what you are accused of? How can you answer any questions if you have not had the opportunity to prepare?

I think the opportunity to prepare comes before a disciplinary meeting where they have to send you the evidence in advance, but the first meeting is an investigation meeting where they ask about the allegations. Thats how I've understood it anyway?