**WON** Arrow(Restons) Credit Card Claim - think statute barred

[nemesis45]

Re: Arrow(Restons) Credit Card Claim - think statute barred

Hi nemisis45 - quick reply

1. deed of assignment- that may be, but they mention assignment in POC so should they produce some paperwork on this at least? You request the Notice of assignment of the debt from the original creditor to the debt purchaser. This would have been sent by the OC and or the debt purchaser.
2. still no paperwork at all- esp the contract Non compliance with the CCA request after the 12 + 2 Working Days has expired renders the debt unenforceable Until the agreement or a compliant reconstituted one is supplied, Do Not Chase the CCA request it's to your advantage if they do not comply.
3. also no reply to my initial CCA req which was sent 3 days before CPR31.14 req - so the 12 days for that runs out on 25th
4. this seems to be common Restons & Arrow stuff looking at forum- also Reston/Arrow Global thread had same repl It is a standard reply to a CPR 31.14 request. Simply remind them that CPR 31.14 applies until the claim is actually allocated to the small claims track and their stance on this will be brought to the attention of the court.
5, so what is my 2nd Notice/letter in reply to their stalling tactics ? See above.
it 6. Also sent Statute barred Limitation Act 19080 Notice on 15th- still no reply- if they don't reply my understanding is claim is unenforceable- they have not proved the dates within last 6yrs The claimant will be checking records of payments and / acknowledgments in the relevant 6 year period, for this they will have to refer to the original creditor which takes considerable time.
7. Also as mentioned in thread - letter from Sainsurys- 'Debt written off, no longer pursuing you' - should i now mention this or wait nearer time (i.e. if they don't resound to CPR31 and CCA requests? I think that the situation on this is simply Sainsbury's notification that they will not being THEY will not be pursuing the alleged debt and this does not preclude selling the debt to a 3rd party who then attempts to collect.
This happens with ever debt that is sold.

This is 1st draft wording to my 2nd req under CPR31.14 - any help would be great


NOTICE for Request for documents mentioned in a statement of case under CPR 31.14

Thank you for your response to my request for disclosure of documents mentioned in your statement of case under CPR 31.14.

I am afraid I must disagree with your assumptions in your draft reply, as already preempted in my initial Notice to you, which you obviously ignored, and just gave a ‘standard’ response.

I am unable to lodge my defence and/or counterclaim at this moment as I have no information regarding the alleged debt. If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing and state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition I require a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence, of which you have initially not agreed to. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.
You must provide the requested docs as per CPR.
Do not make assumptions about what i may or may not have, provide the requested evidence for your claim.

If you are still unwilling to comply with my request for specific disclosure please confirm your refusal, and I will consider entering an application to the court to obtain such.
In accordance with CPR 31.15(c) I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.
The claimant does not have to allow more time.

I look forward to hearing from you within the next 7 days.

Yours sincerely

See suggestions above.

nem

[time2burn]

Re: Arrow(Restons) Credit Card Claim - think statute barred

Hi

So this is my 2nd Notice/letter to Restons for CPR31.4 request
any further legal points or constructive comets welcome;
--
Further NOTICE for Request for documents mentioned in a statement of case under CPR 31.14

Thank you for your response to my request for disclosure of documents mentioned in your statement of case under CPR 31.14.

I am afraid I must disagree with your assumptions in your computer batch draft reply, as already preempted in my initial Notice to you, which you obviously ignored, and just gave a ‘standard’ response.

I am unable to lodge my defence and/or counterclaim at this moment as the information you provided is scanty and incomplete at best. You MUST comply with statutory requirements and provide the documentation originally requested in the Notice sent to you on 16/8/16. If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing and state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition I require a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence, of which you have initially not agreed to. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.
You must provide the requested documentation as per CPR 31.4
Do not make assumptions about what i may or may not have, provide the requested evidence for your claim.
You assert that ‘the other documents you have requested are not ‘mentioned’ in the Particulars of Claim’, yet all the documents I have requested ARE mentioned, or referred to, therefore which documents EXACTLY do you refer?

If you are still unwilling to comply with my request for specific disclosure within 7 days, please confirm your refusal, and I will consider entering an application to the court to obtain such.
In accordance with CPR 31.15(c) I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

To confirm, I require inspection of documents you mention in your statement of case ahead of filing my defence on or before 7/9/2016.

1. True copy of executed Contact
2. The Assignment
3. Statement of account for amount claimed
4.Copies of all other documents you intend to refer to and/or rely on in your claim
5. The exact amount your client [Arrow Global Ltd] paid the original creditor when purchasing the alleged debt


I look forward to hearing from you within the next 7 days.

Yours

[charitynjw]

Re: Arrow(Restons) Credit Card Claim - think statute barred

Notice of Assignment.

[R0b]

Re: Arrow(Restons) Credit Card Claim - think statute barred

MY suggestion of your response letter below. The letter needs to be professional and no smarmy comments as you always need to be aware this could be put in front of the judge to read. They are not obliged to provide you with the amount paid to the original creditor for the debt that is a matter between the claimant and Sainsburys, nor can the court compel them to do so, only in exceptional and rare circumstances.

If they don't supply what you want then I would suggest going on the offensive by making a counterclaim as part of your defence seeking damages for malicious proceedings when they do not have the relevant information as required. So even if they discontinued at some point they would need to defend your claim. If they do not provide a defence to your counterclaim then you are awarded summary judgment on it.

----------------------------------------------

Further NOTICE for Request for documents mentioned in a statement of case under CPR 31.14

Thank you for your response to my request for disclosure of documents mentioned in your statement of case under CPR 31.14, your comments are noted.

You will be aware that this claim is yet to be allocated to the small claims track and until that point, CPR 31.14 applies.

In your letter you appear to suggest that you or your Client is not prepared to provide the documents requested on the basis that the terms and condition may have been provided to me over 10 years ago. I am somewhat surprised at your stance given that the burden of proof is on your Client to prove that the money is owed. In addition, the courts expect a 'cards on the table approach' and expect both parties to exchange sufficient information to understand one another's position. This is further clarified in the overriding objective under CPR 1.1. Your point blank refusal to provide such documents to which you rely upon is a flagrant breach of the overriding objective and I reserve the right to refer this letter to the court in relation to costs.

Without such information, I am unable to consider the claim properly and fully plead a defence. I also note that you failed to acknowledge or respond to my request for an extension of time as allowed under the CPR. Might I also add that unreasonable refusla may amount to a costs sanction against you for a failure to co-operate. If you continue to refuse to co-operate in providing the documents in which you rely upon, I shall have no choice but state that your Client has no locus standi in this matter and request the court to provide a copy of the Deed of Assignment and/or evidence from Sainsbury's Bank by way of a Witness Statement confirming your Client's right to bring such a claim.

For the avoidance of doubt, I require your Client to provide the following:

1. Copy of the contract including all of its terms and conditions; and
2. Copies of the documents referred to in the Particulars of Claim.

Yours

[time2burn]

Re: Arrow(Restons) Credit Card Claim - think statute barred

Hi Rob, Nemisis 45 & gang

that is great stuff- that really helps
esp the part about - I also add that unreasonable refusla may amount to a costs sanction against you for a failure to co-operate

have redone and posted

cheers
lets see what comes our way in 7 days

of course there is also the CCA req. which 12 days expires on 27th
and the Limitation Act 1980 letter which also has had no reply - therefore they cannot take any action on that fact alone , unless they prove ack. of debt or payment HAS been made in last 6 yrs

Thanks for all input to all

simon

[charitynjw]

Re: Arrow(Restons) Credit Card Claim - think statute barred

@time2burn

and the Limitation Act 1980 letter which also has had no reply - therefore they cannot take any action on that fact alone , unless they prove ack. of debt or payment HAS been made in last 6 yrs

For info

From my recent perusal of this issue, in contract law the cause of action (ie that which starts the SB clock ticking) is based on the date on which the contract was breached.
This crucial date is hotly contested, as it usually benefits the Claimant for this to be much later than the 'last payment or acknowledgement' date.
The authority that many of them seem to quote is BMW Finance v Hart ( http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php? 42761-BMW-vs-Hart-and-Statute-Barred-Debts )

[time2burn]

Re: Arrow(Restons) Credit Card Claim - think statute barred

thanks for that link
also found this statute ref

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/7/15.html

can use this to quote to judge if need be

si

[charitynjw]

Re: Arrow(Restons) Credit Card Claim - think statute barred

The CONC link you posted does not mention, identify or interpret how to pinpoint the date for the cause of action.

That will be something for you & the Claimant to argue, & for a judge to decide.

[R0b]

Re: Arrow(Restons) Credit Card Claim - think statute barred

Have you started drafting your defence yet?

[nemesis45]

Re: Arrow(Restons) Credit Card Claim - think statute barred

Hi

So this is my 2nd Notice/letter to Restons for CPR31.4 request
any further legal points or constructive comets welcome;
--
Further NOTICE for Request for documents mentioned in a statement of case under CPR 31.14

Thank you for your response to my request for disclosure of documents mentioned in your statement of case under CPR 31.14.

I am afraid I must disagree with your assumptions in your computer batch draft reply, as already preempted in my initial Notice to you, which you obviously ignored, and just gave a ‘standard’ response.

I am unable to lodge my defence and/or counterclaim at this moment as the information you provided is scanty and incomplete at best. You MUST comply with statutory requirements and provide the documentation originally requested in the Notice sent to you on 16/8/16. If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing and state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition I require a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence, of which you have initially not agreed to. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.
You must provide the requested documentation as per CPR 31.4
Do not make assumptions about what i may or may not have, provide the requested evidence for your claim.
You assert that ‘the other documents you have requested are not ‘mentioned’ in the Particulars of Claim’, yet all the documents I have requested ARE mentioned, or referred to, therefore which documents EXACTLY do you refer?

If you are still unwilling to comply with my request for specific disclosure within 7 days, please confirm your refusal, and I will consider entering an application to the court to obtain such.
In accordance with CPR 31.15(c) I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

To confirm, I require inspection of documents you mention in your statement of case ahead of filing my defence on or before 7/9/2016.

1. True copy of executed Contact
2. The Assignment
3. Statement of account for amount claimed
4.Copies of all other documents you intend to refer to and/or rely on in your claim
5. The exact amount your client [Arrow Global Ltd] paid the original creditor when purchasing the alleged debt


I look forward to hearing from you within the next 7 days.

Yours

Looks like you have mixed up a CCA request with CPR 31,14.

The CPR 31 .14 request is for the documents *****specifically mentioned ***** in the Particular of Claim.



e.g. an agreement or contract, a default notice, a notice of assignment.

Nothing else whatsoever.

nem

[time2burn]

Re: Arrow(Restons) Credit Card Claim - think statute barred

Hi
I am expecting no docs to arrive as none yet- and only 4 days until their CPR and CCA deadlines arrive
my next step is to do an N244 application as based on Amethyst link http://legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php?50620-31-14-application-for-unless-order-at-court

this is basic layout:




1.
An order (a draft of which is attached)that the Claimant shall provide the Defendant with copies of the documents listed in the draft order, pursuant to its duties under CPR 31.14 within 7 days of the date of the order.

In default of the above the Claim stands struck out without further order.

In the event the Claimant complies with the above paragraph then the Defendant shall file and serve his Defence by 4pm on ................................... 2014 (not less than 21 days from the date of compliance)

The Claimant shall pay the Defendants costs in this application.
------
2.
BETWEEN:

XXXXXXXXXX

Claimant

- and –

Defendant

XXXXXXXXXX

_________________________________

ORDER
_________________________________

Before District Judge Sitting at the Northampton County Court CC BC, 4th floor, St Katharine's House, 21-27 St Katharine's Street, Northampton Northamptonshire, NN1 2LH, on the ............. day of .............. 2014

UPON reading the Defendant’s Application Notice dated .......Todays Date.........

And


UPON the Court noting that the Claimant remains in breach of the Civil Procedure Rules Pre Action Protocol Practice Direction and CPR Rule 31.14.

IT IS ORDERED THAT:

1: The Claimant shall by 4pm on .................................... 2014 (7 days from the date of this order) provide the Defendant copies of the following documents mentioned in the Claim Form pursuant to CPR Rule 31.14.

a) The Credit Agreement ((((((((((( ONLY DOCUMENTS THAT YOU ASKED FOR AND HAVE IN YOUR WITNESS STATEMENT ))))))))))))))))
b) The Default Notice
c) The assignment

2: If the Claimant fails to comply with paragraph 1 the Claim shall stand struck out without further order.

3: Upon the Claimant complying with paragraph 1 the Defendant shall file and serve his Defence by 4pm on.................................... 2014. (21 days after compliance with para 1)

4: The Claimant do pay the Defendant’s costs in this application to be assessed if not agreed.
-----

then do a a WITNESS STATEMENT which i have done before
if they fail to respond with docs in 7 days i win
the questions i have are

1. Is this still best route to go (as it avoids court if they fail to produce docs)- and i can claim the stupid £255 cost of the N244 back
2. How do i actually claim the money for the N244 application back as well as any time and expenses for myself say £50? do i have to put in a special costs form or just a statement? and who do i send this to? the court or claimant - i know i would do this after claimant not responded and the order is applied- but HOW do i get my application fee back off claimant?

Thanks
si

[R0b]

Re: Arrow(Restons) Credit Card Claim - think statute barred

Making an application would not prevent the fact that you have to submit a defence within the required time. You'd have to ask for the application to be put before a judge urgently to give further directions so as to enable you to properly plead your defence. As for your applications fees you would need to amend your order in 2. and say something like it is struck out and the claimant shall pay the applicant's fees of £255 and expenses of £X.

Perhaps you could do it on a without notice application but I would suggest that you notify the other side of your intentions first so that they are aware of what you are doing.

There was a case Rubin v something that had a useful quote from a Court of Appeal case about the cards on the table approach and that could be useful in persuading the judge to make an order.

Not sure it is the best route to go but it is an attempt to expedite the documents for your defence. Note that your current order says 2014 so you'll need to change that.

[time2burn]

Re: Arrow(Restons) Credit Card Claim - think statute barred

thanks

claimant already been notified in previous 2 CPR requests

the application & order asks for an extension of time- thats in the ORDER- so it would prevent putting defence in- as done this before with Lowells in 2014

The witness statement quotes 2 cases - Rubin being 1 of them Rix LJ in Expandable v Rubin [2008] EWCA Civ 59 (at paragraph 24)
& Court of Appeal in Mitchell v News Group Newspaper [2013] EWCA Civ 1537

Also the order etc above is just pasted from forum post - it has not been edited with my details yet - just put up for info on what [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] put

Si

[R0b]

Re: Arrow(Restons) Credit Card Claim - think statute barred

the application & order asks for an extension of time- thats in the ORDER- so it would prevent putting defence in- as done this before with Lowells in 2014

Yes but until a judge has made a decision on whether or not to extend the time and your time to comply will be 33 days from the date of issue. Just because you submit an application it does not put a stop on the time to file a defence, that will only occur after an order has been made, hence the reason to suggest a sense of urgency in the reasons for making the application.

[time2burn]

Re: Arrow(Restons) Credit Card Claim - think statute barred

yes R0b - i understand that
am doing defence as well next week
it will be tight as will have 7 days from application(30th) until deadline for defence(7 sept)

Q. is there a way of getting this type of application as URGENT and ahead of queue so will be seen and acted on within 24hrs- i did last time with Lowells- DDJ looked at it same day at CCBC and order was amended slightly by DDJ and dates filled in by him etc- but can't remember HOW i got it seen so quickly- is there some statue or CPR or court protocol i can quote?

Thanks
si