* discontinued * Small claim court papers receive for a limited company

[GBExile]

Re: Small claim court papers receive for a limited company

Ok I understand but I have CIS vouchers dated a couple of years before we ceased trading that were issued to him from the company so surely that is enough evidence it is the company rather than me?

Benken the CIS vouchers are your defence

You do not have any other defence. A proper company would have quotes in writing & an acceptance in writing, invoices in writing, payslips & purchase receipts etc etc

You formed a limited company on the back of a beermat mate. That doesnt go down well in court. Especially when you have dodged winding up.

Just stick with your CIS defence. That is all you have (but that is your fault. You should have all the paperwork as above)

If he is clever or anywhere near my spectacular intelligence then you have lost....

But lets face it. He probably will back off with the CIS evidence.

[Amethyst]

Re: Small claim court papers receive for a limited company

Hi Benken,

Following your PM, I've uploaded a basis example defence of how you might set it out.

The contractor has issued a claim so it will go ahead until he either discontinues or it goes to a hearing and loses.

You will need to fill in any gaps and adapt to suit your case.

Have you got the defence sorted out following on from R0b's draft? That's all you need to concentrate on at the moment as it needs to be filed and served in the next week or so ( 33 days maximum from the date of issue )

[benken28]

Re: Small claim court papers receive for a limited company

Thanks for your reply.

I have spoken to the court and I still have 10 days to submit my defence.

Do I need to include copies of the vouchers or would that be at the hearing?

When I spoke to the court and they said a questionnaire will be sent to me after I have filed my defence and an option of mediation or the hearing. Would it be worth opting for mediation to explain the situation to him?

Thanks again

[GBExile]

Re: Small claim court papers receive for a limited company

Ok I understand but I have CIS vouchers dated a couple of years before we ceased trading that were issued to him from the company so surely that is enough evidence it is the company rather than me?

I dont know? Is it?

Its all you have for the time being. You should have filed your defence already. But take a deep breathe & see what happens next.

I will try & help you but you really need to know what he is going to do next.

And as you said before.. He is a tad unstable. So who knows.

[Amethyst]

Re: Small claim court papers receive for a limited company

That would all come later on - the defence is the basic defence to the case, any evidence/documentation etc is provided later, once it has been transferred to your local court and Witness Statements ordered 14 days before any hearing. He will have to put in his invoices and evidence too at that stage showing that it was you rather than the company he invoiced etc. So if you have evidence to the contrary you can be getting it all off the accountant and ready for your witness statements.

It is normal to opt for Mediation when you get your Directions Questionnaire - when you do that it isn't a direct conversation between the parties - it is through a third party mediator by phone - you can pass messages across to try and reach a settlement ( if that's what you wanted to do).... first though get the defence in and see if he files any response to it.

[GBExile]

Re: Small claim court papers receive for a limited company

No need to include the vouchers

You just say that you have them in your possession.

If you lived near me I would write your defence for you. Your mate has well done you over. Whats his defence?

[benken28]

Re: Small claim court papers receive for a limited company

Ok thanks I have the copies of the vouchers already.

GBExile I have spoken to the court and they told me I have 10 days to submit my defence, are you saying the earlier I get my defence in the better?

Thanks

[benken28]

Re: Small claim court papers receive for a limited company

GBExile when you refer to my mate do you mean the other ex director? If so he is also named as a defendant

Thanks

[GBExile]

Re: Small claim court papers receive for a limited company

Ok thanks I have the copies of the vouchers already.

GBExile I have spoken to the court and they told me I have 10 days to submit my defence, are you saying the earlier I get my defence in the better?

Thanks

Its not going to make a blind bit of difference when you file the defence. No one will look at it until they have to & you are a bit past worrying of that now.

You are just going to be shuffling paperwork for a while. Just make sure you do your shuffling before deadlines.


Just had to file for a judgement because someone (lloyds bank) never filed a defence yesterday. Gave them an extra 2 days too. But I guess they dont want to file a defence because its pointless.

Who knows my friend. You dont know what comes next because its not in your control.

Which is why your defence needs to be as strong & honest as possible.

PS Your business partner needs hanging if he has indeed left you out to dry.

[benken28]

Re: Small claim court papers receive for a limited company

He hasn't hung me out to dry but is seeking advice himself.

If I base my defence on R0bs draft do you think that would be the best way to go about it?

Thanks

[GBExile]

Re: Small claim court papers receive for a limited company

He hasn't hung me out to dry but is seeking advice himself.

If I base my defence on R0bs draft do you think that would be the best way to go about it?

Thanks

No idea mate but I do think you should be saying "exactly" the same thing.

Maybe you 2 need to sit down & devise one defense from the both of you. It would look better in court & cut the time down etc

[R0b]

Re: Small claim court papers receive for a limited company

I have to say this thread is becoming far too complicated than it should be. With respect to [MENTION=94473]GBExile[/MENTION], the central question that the court needs to consider is whether Benken entered into the contract on behalf of the company or whether the contract was entered into personally.

I don't know anything about CIS vouchers but assuming that can only be issued/used by a business rather than a consumer, then evidence of the vouchers to my mind would be indicative that the contract was made between the contractor and the company and therefore not Benken personally. The contractor would need to provide some evidence to show the contract was entered into personally. If the contractor cannot overcome that very first hurdle, then everything else falls away and need not be discussed/argued.

Any CIS vouchers, correspondence text messages, bank transfers etc. indicating which shows that the contract was for the benefit of the company is all evidence to support your defence. The way in which the company was dissolved is irrelevant unless the contractor is alleging that the company was a sham and in which case would need to be explicitly pleaded for the court to consider piercing the corporate veil and holding Benken personally responsible. In my view, that argument wasn't pleaded and is more than likely going to be a non-starter.

Your defence should have a heavy focus on the fact that the contractor is claiming against the wrong person (reference this in your defence by a date and/or time if you already told him this) as you were not a party to the contract personally, rather it was the company.

[GBExile]

Re: Small claim court papers receive for a limited company

Rob

A CIS voucher is basically an enhanced PAYE receipt/wage slip.


The employer (benken) pays the contractor (mr I want to sue you) but deducts something like 18% on the value of the invoice (supplied by mr I want to sue you) & (benken) is supposed to pay that money direct to the Government on a monthly basis. Whenever it is deducted from payments.

On the cis receipts it states that claimant was given money & it states the payer (benkens limited company) the value of the payment & the deductions that are paid direct to HMRC & the net amount.

The claimant then submits the receipts to HMRC to be given any deductions in the form of a rebate. ETC & the plaintiff pays the deductions to HMRC too (in the form of pretty much the same way as NI payments are made)

Its basically a pay slip but is is written by the Government for companies to fill in.

Not something you want to play with unless you don't mind doing time.

[R0b]

Re: Small claim court papers receive for a limited company

Rob

A CIS voucher is basically an enhanced PAYE receipt/wage slip.


The employer (benken) pays the contractor (mr I want to sue you) but deducts something like 18% on the value of the invoice (supplied by mr I want to sue you) & (benken) is supposed to pay that money direct to the Government on a monthly basis. Whenever it is deducted from payments.

On the cis receipts it states that claimant was given money & it states the payer (benkens limited company) the value of the payment & the deductions that are paid direct to HMRC & the net amount.

The claimant then submits the receipts to HMRC to be given any deductions in the form of a rebate. ETC & the plaintiff pays the deductions to HMRC too (in the form of pretty much the same way as NI payments are made)

Its basically a pay slip but is is written by the Government for companies to fill in.

Not something you want to play with unless you don't mind doing time.

Thank you for clarifying that, so that seems to me that these vouchers would evidence the fact that the contract was with the company, not Benken personally as an individual

[GBExile]

Re: Small claim court papers receive for a limited company

Thank you for clarifying that, so that seems to me that these vouchers would evidence the fact that the contract was with the company, not Benken personally as an individual

Yes. Rob. They would certainly confirm that the claimant was indeed paid by the company at the time the vouchers were issued. In fact the claimant cannot deny these payments were not made.

But I suggest you read back on Benkens comments that suggest payments were made later that were not issued with a CIS voucher.