*** DISCONTINUED *** PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form

[PC Pilot]

Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

Hi Joanna C

Thank you for the very prompt response to my reply to Diana M's post.....your kind words are very much appreciated.

You will have noted my concern about the documents ultimately being forthcoming as per the CCA request by Cartel/Consumer Credit Litigation Solicitors a number of years ago and I am simply seeking to envision a defence were this to be so.... as you have suggested I should try to be more patient I guess!

The returned Standing Order in my opinion is most likely due to 2. Change of Bank.... My understanding is that this is very much linked to the liquidation of Experto Credite and as I (and others) have noted this seems grossly unfair (to my simple concept of natural justice at least) that they can do this, initiate a CCJ and never supply a clear and simple replacement mandate indicating the change. I appreciate that they can perhaps indicate that their many (unanswered) calls were to do this.....even if as we all know they are more a part of the DC industry's strong arm practices devised to extract unaffordable amounts by their "pursuasive telephone techniques".

Your summary of reasons does alarm me however, in respect of your point 3. .....securing a debt against property.

Given my rather chaotic fall into debt detailed in the first post I was left no time to grieve, let alone to think and NO spare funds leaving even major problems settling the funeral debt at the time. Accordingly the application for probate was not made for nearly 2 years as I could not afford the £90 fee and being an only child and sole beneficiary of my father's estate this was very much academic in the circumstances.

Probate was granted to me alone, the only asset being my father's property (my home) and given the lack of funds no changes were considered necessary or ever made and thus the property effectively remains in the name Pers Reps to my father (deceased) and thus title never vested in my name. Perhaps in view of these debt paracites that has been useful thus far?... but I would not wish to see them add to my pain any further by securing this doubtful debt against my home as any disclosure to the court might bring

Thank you also for your expertise in respect of the Unfair Relationship Provisions mentioned elsewhere on another forum....might this form a valid option for defence were the documents requested under CCA/CPR/SAR correspondence last month to be forthcoming?

Sorry for the repeated questioning, this is constantly playing on my mind.....as a result I can't sleep properly (not that has ever been good with my Muscular Dystrophy ).....and feel that all of this is just dragging me further down and wish to see this either returned to the £1 per month....or better yet dismissed.

Best regards

PC Pilot

[Amethyst]

Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

I have have read the thread you have linked to.

I would confirm that contrary to what is being stated on that thread assignees of debt (i. e PRA, Hoist Portfolio, Cabot, Lowells) etc are treated as creditors under the Unfair Relationship provisions in the Consumer Credit Act.

Just to confirm this see section 189 of the CCA 1974 'Definitions'

“creditor ” means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit agreement, includes the prospective creditor;

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/189

[spirit2534]

Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

I was pondering that one too......If it helps Experto Credite appear to have gone into liquidation late last year.......

PC Pilot

- - - Updated - - -

The plot thickens!!😬

Lets hope that this is true, one more evil removed!

[PC Pilot]

Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

Hi Amethyst.....and thanks for the provision of such an informative and truly helpful site.....your foresight in establishing this valuable resource is most commendable!

Your clarification above of the obligations required of debt assignee's vis a vis Section 189 illustrates why those of us who find ourselves in this regrettable position find this forum essential when attempting to navigate the legal complexities which suddenly come our way as a County Court Claim drops through the letterbox....so thanks again on behalf of everyone!

No doubt over simplistically I look at what has happened to me and regard several factors in particular as being most unfair and (unguided) would have formed the 'uneducated' basis of defence these are as follows.......no doubt I am missing the obvious and the legal beagle gurus like yourself will suggest a far more robust and legally representative defence in due course. None the less would appreciate any observations/comments on these to aid my "education".

1. Identifiable intent on my part to meet the negotiated Payment Plan never having missed a payment since it was established in 2012.

2. No attempt to inform me in writing of the collapse of Experto Credite in 2016 and its implications for me.

3. Payments simply returned to my bank thus providing 'excuse' for a 'technical' payment plan default.

4. No provision of revised Standing Order mandate with updated Bank Details to ensure continuity of payments. In my experience with other debts this was generally the case.

5. Highly confusing ping pong of assignee's/agents each indicating just a change of name and thus not requiring any change of payment bank details. On reflection these tactics could appear a quite deliberate means of creating a reason to call them?

6. Incomplete or improper documentation in respect of assignments - covered of course in the CPR request immediately identified by Charitynjw after my initial post.

Best regards,

PC Pilot

[spirit2534]

Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

Lets hope that this is true, one more evil removed!

I have checked :
Experto Credite Limited – in Creditors’ Voluntary Liquidation
Registered number: 6022748 / FCA Registration number 717712
Registered office at the date of liquidation: Inspired, Easthampstead Road, Bracknell, RG12 1NS
Future/current registered office: c/o Smith & Williamson LLP, 4^th Floor Cumberland House, 15-17 Cumberland Place, Southampton, SO15 2BG
(the registered office is being relocated to the liquidators’ offices and this will be effective in early December)
On 24 November 2016 David Blenkarn and Greg Palfrey of Smith & Williamson LLP were appointed joint liquidators of Experto Credite Limited.
Experto Credite Limited has ceased to trade.
Any trading, operating, financial or employee creditors may contact the liquidators using the details set out below.
To persons making payments to Experto Credite Limited in respect of loan and other balances (“customers” or “borrowers”):
The Company’s policy and practice was that borrowers’ payments should be kept separately from the Company’s own funds in bank accounts held for that specific purpose.
The Company’s debt collection accounts are being or have, in some cases, already been closed. Payments to these accounts made after the relevant account closures will be returned by the banks to the remitters (customers).
It is intended that any payments made prior to the final account closures will be transmitted to the relevant lender to reduce the borrower’s account balance with them.
The liquidators do not presently have live access to customer records and therefore have limited ability to respond to enquiries about individual borrowers’ circumstances.
Any enquiries should now be directed to the joint liquidators using the details below:
By post to: Smith & Williamson LLP, 4^th Floor Cumberland House, 15-17 Cumberland Place, Southampton, SO15 2BG
All post should be marked “Experto Credite Limited – for the attention of Sam Tovey”
By telephone: 023 8082 7646
By e-mail: sam.tovey@smithandwilliamson.com
Please ensure that your e-mail has the subject line “Experto Credite Limited”



Experto Credite Limited
frequently asked questions

We have set out below some frequently asked questions for consumers making debt repayments to Experto Credite Limited, please also note the following three points regarding future payments:

1. Please do not send any further payments to Experto Credite Limited by post, bank transfer or otherwise.
2. Please cancel any standing orders or direct debit instructions in favour of Experto Credite Limited with your bank.
3. Your loan or debt has been passed back to the lender (or a new agent) to administer only they can deal with ongoing enquiries.

Goodbye to bad rubbish, one less leech about!

[PC Pilot]

Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

I can't imagine anyone on these forums will mourn their passing......perhaps those who pushed the buttons at the top will now feel the pain of those they hounded.

Unfortunately, I somehow doubt it.......these guys are generally coated in Teflon and before too long those who drifted the Experto Credite ship onto the rocks will probably be rewarded with a similar high profile role with a major lender or elsewhere in the UK's already blighted finance industry.

I hope I am wrong in this rather rash assumption......only time will tell!!

PC Pilot

[perry1]

Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

Hi I wish I know where I was with this , my debt is over 9 years old , and I was paying it under an agreed process, I wish I knew why everyone is saying why experto are an important link as I was paying them for years and have some paperwork.

Good luck PC Pilot you are not alone.

Same letter same court same default I've been paying £1 a month for about 6 years now this recent default from PRA don't k now what they trying on but its like they pulled people in on mass with same letters of default I hope we can get these suckers nailed mate stay strong this cannot be right perry1.

[perry1]

Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

Perry1 I also noticed cases similar to mine concerning PRA even in amount paid back on one they said idefaulted 2006 later on they said they got last payment 2016 what's going on.

[PC Pilot]

Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

Hi Perry,

Thanks for that, it's driving me to distraction.....I do really agree and that's why I suspect it's something to do with (or else at the very least providing a 'useful' excuse for) the Experto Credite collapse....trawling this forum just before came across yet another very similar case to both of ours....http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...ty-Court-Claim

.....just how many of us are out there??

In respect of the default anomaly......the date corresponds to the date of issue of MBNA's original notice of default perhaps?? ....and not the 'technically' defaulted debt payment plan of 2016/17....

Regards,

PC Pilot

[PC Pilot]

Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

Hi to Di, Jo and all...

Just a brief heads up with latest update:

1. I have today received a 4 line (standard?) acknowledgement of receipt to the SAR request dated 9th March 2017 from MBNA. It confirms that they are processing the request and that it may take up to 40 days but that they will send it "as soon as we can".......is this likely to be problem??

2. Still no letter from Bank.....chased again today......advised it is in post and that payments since inception are confirmed. Call referred to a 'manager' who 'suggested' that a court would attach more weight to the account statements in any case rather than to any letter confirming payments made (I have all 22 Statements relating to this account from which these £1 payments were/are made).....not sure if this is the case?

3. Still NO response from the request for documents in respect of the CPR from PRA's legal rep......how much time do they have to respond? Do I need to do anything else with 10 days to run to defence deadline?

Thanks in advance,

PC Pilot

[PC Pilot]

Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

Hi again to all,

Update on yesterday's post:

Still no response to CPR request......is time now running short on this?

I have today received the letter from my Bank (which was requested in case the argument surrounding the 'technical' default created by the liquidation of Experto Credite were required as part of any defence in so far as proof of 'intent' to pay).

Quite simply, I requested written confirmation of the following factual information:

1. The date of inception of the Standing Order
2. ALL payments having successfully left the account from inception to date
3. That NO payments were ever missed throughout this entire period
4. That I did not cancel the Standing Order
5. That no instructions to amend the recipient (Experto Credite) Bank details were ever received from the recipient or its agents
6. That payments for Jan, Feb & Mar 2017 were all returned as bank details "not valid or they are unable to accept payments"

In spite of clarifying this with a senior employee unbelievably what I have received is a letter stating that 'the Standing Order is now cancelled'.............is it just me or does anyone else feel that dealing with these institutions is like pulling teeth......Aghhh!!

The matter has been referred to management and is ongoing......I can only hope that you guys feel it is unnecessary for any defence?? Just trying to stay focused and prepared....

Best regards,

PC Pilot

[Amethyst]

Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

The £1 negotiated arrangement - how was that set up - was it a written agreement - with a consequence for breach on either side ? These arrangements are usually informal and for limited periods and when a debt is sold on the new owner can chose to call in the entire debt or continue accepting the £1. I don't believe the court claim has arisen from your payments of £1 stopping going through - more that PRA now own the debt, got it for a bargain ( like 9% of the value) and want to fill their coffers up a bit quicker. I really wouldn't get too sidetracked/concentrated on that issue. The main issue I have with the £1 is that you were paying it for 7 years, and had you not, the debt could well have been statute barred by now, and it has made no difference to the amount you owe, just kept it alive in the background.

Defence wise - the agreement still hasn't surfaced despite your CCA formal request. It sounds as though it is unlikely to. They haven't sent default notice/notice of assignment after your CPr request. They haven't evidenced they have a valid claim.

Have you had a read through the example defence ?- you have a week or so to get your defence filed ( due around 24th March ?) so it is worth making a start and ensuring you have it as strong as you can at this stage. http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...t-Court-Claims

You sound like there may be some PPI issues in there so you can make mention of the misselling, very briefly, so that the issue can be expanded upon should the agreement turn up and be completely valid.

[PC Pilot]

Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

Hi Amethyst,

Thanks for the timely response.....I guess I was looking at the seemingly natural injustice here rather than the 'real' basis of a legal defence upon which I confess to being lost! As suggested, I will review the example defence link you have helpfully provided and post my adapted version here for your subsequent advice/approval.

As suggested I will look to incorporate a brief reference to the PPI misselling.......should this revolve around the issue of the unsuitability owing to my pre-existing disability or just on the lack of supporting documentation?

You are spot on in respect of the £1 arrangement. It was set up in writing between my disabled advocate/debt counsellor and Experto Credite who's letter agreeing to the prospective £1 offer at the time contained the following paragraph "If your payments stop at any time without us agreeing to your non-payment, the full balance will become payable immediately". ....hence my (perhaps incorrect) connection between the collapse of Experto Credite and the CCJ!

I agree also with your observations regarding the time period of 7 years with negligible impact on the debt but remaining active throughout and thus is not becoming statute barred

My worry about the CCA/SAR/CPR documents was raised previously in post 26......do you suspect that it is not likely that copies of these documents (provided elsewhere in 2009) would not surface again now via the PRA Group as I fear?

Thanks again, your guidance is much appreciated.

PC Pilot

[PC Pilot]

Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

Hi to all,

Would very much appreciate your expert input in respect of the adapted text below representing an initial draft of my proposed defence. In particular whether there any crucial omissions/errors, the basis of the defence is reasonable or not and any suggested revisions to improve/clarify as necessary.

Many thanks,

PROPOSED DEFENCE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1: I received the claim [Claim Number XXX] from the County Court Business Centre on 23^rd February 2017

2: Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

3: This claim appears to be for a Credit Card agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

4: It is admitted that the Defendant has previously entered into an agreement with MBNA Europe Bank for provision of credit.

5. Said agreement included an unsolicited provision of Payment Protection Insurance, eligibility for which was contrary to my long term health status.

6: The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.

7. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from MBNA to Aktiv Kapital Portfolio AS, Oslo, Zug Branch on 29^th February 2012 and subsequently to PRA Group (UK) Ltd on 31^st December 2014. The Defendant does not:
a) recall receiving notice of this assignment.
b) recognise the name of the assignee having correspondence indicating otherwise

8. It is denied that MBNA served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.

9: On the 27^th February 2017 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Surjit Gida (Claimant's Legal Representative). I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Agreement, Default Notice, Deeds of Assignment, Notices of Assignment and Formal Demand.

10. The Claimant's Legal Representative has not sent any of these documents to me.

11. On the 27^th February 2017 I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to PRA Group (UK) Ltd pursuant to section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.

12. The Claimant has failed to comply with s 78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of s 78 (6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.

13. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore It is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

14. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.

15. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

16. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

Statement of Truth

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.



Signed…………………………………………

Dated .................................................. ....


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[charitynjw]

Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

If it were me (as you are admitting having an agreement with the original creditor) I'd think about a brief mention of that £1 payment which was erroneously cancelled.
That seems to be the reason why this court claim started?