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n244 Application Notice - completion for amendment?

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  • n244 Application Notice - completion for amendment?

    Hi,

    I previously submitted a claim via the MCOL online service, however I foolishly made several errors and am now having to complete an n244 and amend the claim form to reserve.

    I have a (hopefully) simple question about how to amend the particulars on the orignal claim form; the advice from the courts is:

    "write the amended details next to the incorrect details in red ink"


    The issue is I've not got enough room on the initial claim form to fit the amended details - at a push they will fit, but they're not going to be clear if I do so.

    Has anyone tackled this before or know what to do?

    I'm worried that attaching separate sheets is somehow going to cause the form to be rejected / make the amendments confusing.

    Any advice appreciated.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Originally posted by facepalm View Post
    Hi,

    I previously submitted a claim via the MCOL online service, however I foolishly made several errors and am now having to complete an n244 and amend the claim form to reserve.

    I have a (hopefully) simple question about how to amend the particulars on the orignal claim form; the advice from the courts is:



    The issue is I've not got enough room on the initial claim form to fit the amended details - at a push they will fit, but they're not going to be clear if I do so.

    Has anyone tackled this before or know what to do?

    I'm worried that attaching separate sheets is somehow going to cause the form to be rejected / make the amendments confusing.

    Any advice appreciated.
    File Amended Particulars of Claim as a separate pleading to the claim form with the N244 form.
    HOW TO COMPLETE AN N180 DIRECTIONS QUESTIONNAIRE (SMALL CLAIMS TRACK) FORM?

    My posts on this forum are offered based on my experience dealing with a variety of life events. I have no formal legal training and if in doubt take professional legal advice or contact the CAB. If you follow anything I write on this forum you do so at your own risk and I accept no liability for any loss, costs or other outcomes.

    I do not come on here in the evening, at weekends or on public holidays.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks jaguarsuk, but I don't quite understand what you mean by that. Can you elaborate please?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by facepalm View Post
        Thanks jaguarsuk, but I don't quite understand what you mean by that. Can you elaborate please?
        You will need to write out the Particulars of Claim on a separate sheet in the correct format verbatim from the original claim form. Than amend them accordingly on that sheet and supply them with the application form N244.
        HOW TO COMPLETE AN N180 DIRECTIONS QUESTIONNAIRE (SMALL CLAIMS TRACK) FORM?

        My posts on this forum are offered based on my experience dealing with a variety of life events. I have no formal legal training and if in doubt take professional legal advice or contact the CAB. If you follow anything I write on this forum you do so at your own risk and I accept no liability for any loss, costs or other outcomes.

        I do not come on here in the evening, at weekends or on public holidays.

        Comment


        • #5
          Have you sought the Defendants consent to amend? It may be an idea to see what they say as if they unreasonably refuse you could have a cost point to take in your favour.
          I work for Wannops LLP . I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

          If you need to contact me please email me on Ptilley@wannops.com . My firms initial advice is always free.

          I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.

          You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.

          Comment


          • #6

            Originally posted by pt2537 View Post
            Have you sought the Defendants consent to amend? It may be an idea to see what they say as if they unreasonably refuse you could have a cost point to take in your favour.
            I wasn't aware I had to request the defendants permission? Is that a thing? I thought by filing the amend and re-serve request I was applying for a judge to review and re-serve it from scratch. The specific reason for requesting it be re-served is to add a 2nd defendant (MCOL wouldn't let me add the 2nd defendant, but this should be a joint claim)

            This is relatively early in the process. The defendant has supplied their defense, but because I royally messed up the original claim the amendments pretty much start the claim over again - this time with joint liability.

            By "cost point to take in your favor" - what exactly do you mean by that? I'm just a lay-man so I'm afraid anything implied is just going to go straight over my head - are you just talking about the fee?

            Advice from the MCOL helpdesk was just to make the amendments on a spearate sheet and reference them on the original. I find this whole process totally convoluted; especially as my amendments pretty much amount to rewriting the reason for the claim and adding extra detail relevent to the 2nd defendant.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by facepalm View Post


              I wasn't aware I had to request the defendants permission? Is that a thing? I thought by filing the amend and re-serve request I was applying for a judge to review and re-serve it from scratch. The specific reason for requesting it be re-served is to add a 2nd defendant (MCOL wouldn't let me add the 2nd defendant, but this should be a joint claim)

              This is relatively early in the process. The defendant has supplied their defense, but because I royally messed up the original claim the amendments pretty much start the claim over again - this time with joint liability.

              By "cost point to take in your favor" - what exactly do you mean by that? I'm just a lay-man so I'm afraid anything implied is just going to go straight over my head - are you just talking about the fee?

              Advice from the MCOL helpdesk was just to make the amendments on a spearate sheet and reference them on the original. I find this whole process totally convoluted; especially as my amendments pretty much amount to rewriting the reason for the claim and adding extra detail relevent to the 2nd defendant.
              Ok so Civil Procedure Rules govern litigation, CPR 17 deals with amendments to your statement of case, you can amend with consent, or you have to get the courts permission once you have served your statement of case.

              Now look at it logically, wouldnt it be better to have the othersides consent? You dont need to make the application, you can serve the amended pleadings, the only issue is you may have to pay the other sides costs.

              Now the alternative is an application, this costs £255, plus if i am the lawyer for the other side im going to scream that you failed to ask for my consent, this app could have been avoided if you had, court time could have been saved, my costs, which have gone up by £1500 (lets say) would not have been incurred, so please judge can you order the Claimant to pay my costs of this app plus the amendments.

              That is the issue, if you ask for their consent and they refuse, then you can use this as an argument on costs at the hearing of the application.

              Lastly, if you are adding a party then you need the Courts permission that is covered by a different rule
              I work for Wannops LLP . I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

              If you need to contact me please email me on Ptilley@wannops.com . My firms initial advice is always free.

              I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.

              You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.

              Comment


              • #8
                Soo adding a party, you are going to have a headache i fear, this is the rule which covers that aspect http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...l/rules/part19
                I work for Wannops LLP . I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

                If you need to contact me please email me on Ptilley@wannops.com . My firms initial advice is always free.

                I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.

                You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by facepalm View Post
                  MCOL wouldn't let me add the 2nd defendant, but this should be a joint claim
                  It actually does via button below the first defendant (see below), so that argument will not wash with a well informed judge.

                  Click image for larger version

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                  HOW TO COMPLETE AN N180 DIRECTIONS QUESTIONNAIRE (SMALL CLAIMS TRACK) FORM?

                  My posts on this forum are offered based on my experience dealing with a variety of life events. I have no formal legal training and if in doubt take professional legal advice or contact the CAB. If you follow anything I write on this forum you do so at your own risk and I accept no liability for any loss, costs or other outcomes.

                  I do not come on here in the evening, at weekends or on public holidays.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    jaguarsuk I'm aware of that now - however I was ushered through to a "beta" pilot system which was supposedly "simpler" and only allowed one. It was a fault on my side, thinking originaly I was persuing one defendant anyway.

                    pt2537 this is starting to sound like a right can of worms - I was under the impression that liability for legal costs was limited under the small claims track - it's looking like that's not true.

                    Regardless I am now where I am and have to find the best way forward.

                    The current state of the claim is mediation, I wonder; would it be possible to get that permission from the defendant via mediation? Or does it not work that way. Previous attempts to communicate with the first defendant never got a response, I wonder why they would feel obliged to respond to a request for permission anyway.

                    thoughts?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...rt17/pd_part17

                      A party applying for an amendment will usually be responsible for the costs of and arising from the amendment.
                      I work for Wannops LLP . I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

                      If you need to contact me please email me on Ptilley@wannops.com . My firms initial advice is always free.

                      I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.

                      You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by facepalm View Post
                        pt2537 this is starting to sound like a right can of worms - I was under the impression that liability for legal costs was limited under the small claims track - it's looking like that's not true.
                        They are, but the claim isn't being heard in any tack yet and any application to the court carries a cost risk as it is outside the scope of any track to be dealt with on it's own merit.

                        Originally posted by facepalm View Post
                        Regardless I am now where I am and have to find the best way forward.

                        The current state of the claim is mediation, I wonder; would it be possible to get that permission from the defendant via mediation? Or does it not work that way. Previous attempts to communicate with the first defendant never got a response, I wonder why they would feel obliged to respond to a request for permission anyway.

                        thoughts?
                        No, mediation is supposed to be where you attempt to settle the claim and your focus there should be trying to come to some sort of agreement with them to settle. You'll need to be flexible though.

                        You'll need to write to them to seek permission to add another defendant, give them a period to respond and if they don't make an application to the court.
                        HOW TO COMPLETE AN N180 DIRECTIONS QUESTIONNAIRE (SMALL CLAIMS TRACK) FORM?

                        My posts on this forum are offered based on my experience dealing with a variety of life events. I have no formal legal training and if in doubt take professional legal advice or contact the CAB. If you follow anything I write on this forum you do so at your own risk and I accept no liability for any loss, costs or other outcomes.

                        I do not come on here in the evening, at weekends or on public holidays.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          pt2537 going back over your explanation, I'm struggling to understand the difference between "serve the amended pleadings" and "make the application"

                          I thought my only option here was to file the n244 to re-serve, and we were discussing that I should get the 1st defendants permission before doing so?

                          The only option I've been given by the clerks on the helpline is the n244 & re-serve request.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi there

                            Please see CPR 17 for more info on amending

                            (1) A party may amend his statement of case at any time before it has been served on any other party.

                            (2) If his statement of case has been served, a party may amend it only –

                            (a) with the written consent of all the other parties; or

                            (b) with the permission of the court.

                            (3) If a statement of case has been served, an application to amend it by removing, adding or substituting a party must be made in accordance with rule 19.4.
                            I work for Wannops LLP . I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

                            If you need to contact me please email me on Ptilley@wannops.com . My firms initial advice is always free.

                            I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.

                            You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks for that clarification pt2537 - the information you've conveyed is now starting to make sense.

                              It also looks like this issue needs even more attention; as the 2nd defendant is a member of a professional body they've taken the "letter before claim" to be a "preliminary notice" and suggested I should follow the Pre-Action Protocol for Professional Negligence and send them a detailed letter of claim first.

                              So this is where it gets confusing for me; currently we're at the stage where the claim has been served and is waiting mediation - I've been informed (correctly or not) that I need to apply for the claim to be adjourned whilst I follow this pre-action protocol with the 2nd defendant.

                              Can this be done? What is the difference between a "stayed" claim and a "adjourned" one and I'm assuming I can do this do I have to specify a duration?

                              Comment

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