**. Won **. Car not as advertised - court claim - eBay

[jerry12x]

Yes, my son is in the driving seat but I don't ask him everything.
He is not involved with my posting here.
Here is an exact copy of the POC with no details omitted.
As you can see by it's amateurish layout, it was done by myself before my son came on board.
When it was made, my son was living in Italy, teaching.

Particulars of Claim
Sending Particulars No
Directly
Claim Particulars
I bought Vauxhall Astra from your advert
placed on ebay on 20/01/2018.
It was advertised as GOOD CONDITION ALL
ROUND.
I paid £3300 delivered.

The car was delivered late at night and a
small inspection was carried out about an
hour later.

I found these faults.
2 x Interior panels are missing.
The Centre console display needed to operate
heating, cooling and the radio is broken.
The drivers doorway is very badly marked.
The drivers doorway rubber coming away from
the car at the bottom and looks unsightly.
The front bumper is not secured properly.
The car has not been started, there could be
other faults.
You were informed of this by email that same
evening.
I require a full refund of £3300
plus £185 for this claim.

This post did not save in the format in which it was posted.

[des8]

You might receive an order from the court directing you to file a properly pleaded CPR complaint Particulars of Claim.
On the other hand as you are a litigant in person the judge might accept what you have written.

Have you yet written your witness statement?
If not I would suggest you start now so there is time to knock it into shape.

[jerry12x]

Witness statement?
You are a hundred leagues above me in knowledge of the legal system.
Oh and thank you for your excellent link in law basics.
Helped a lot.

[des8]

Process in brief:
1) initiate money claim on line through MCOL
2) court sends copy of claim to defendant
3) defendant either (a) admits or (b) disputes claim
4) if (a) court decides how defendant pays
5) if (b) defendant serves a defence on the claimant and files a copy in court
6)Court sends directions questionnaire
7) if both parties agree to mediation court will offer a free service
8)Case is allocated to small claims track and both parties sent "notice of Allocation" which contains directions about preparing for the hearing.
This includes sending the documentation you will be relying on.
One of these documents will be your "witness statement". This is your FACTUAL account of what has happened and must be in a set format.
See here: https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...ess-statements
It needs to be on A4 paper, written on one side only in 12.5 font and 1.5 line spacing.
Each page needs to be numbered and contain the court case number in top right hand corner
Documents referred to in the WS need to be numbered as "exhibit No." and presented in a separate attachment

At what stage are you?
Have you received a copy of the defence?

In any event you need to start writing your witness statement.
If you haven't kept aide memoirs as matters proceeded (and who does?) your first draft is almost bound to need polishing and changing as you recall details missed the first time round.

[jerry12x]

The stage we are at is 6)Court sends directions questionnaire.
I returned the questionnaire about 3 weeks back.
Two days ago I received a letter from the court, a copy of the letter sent to the defendant.
It insisted that they return the questionnaire within 7 days or have their defence struck out.
MCOL filed the DQ as received today.

The following is the defence.

1. I, nnnnnnnnnnnnn a director of nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn SAY AS FOLLOWS:
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn is a limited liability company,
the companies registered office is nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. The
company registration number is nnnnnnnnnn.

2. The Defendant is an independent used car retailer selling used
Vehicles to the general public.

3. The Defendant is aware of their legal obligations as
prescribed by the Consumer Rights Act 2015, hereinafter referred
to as the “CRA”. The Vehicle must be of a satisfactory quality S9
CRA 2015, fit for purpose s10 CRA 2015 and as described s11 CRA
2015.

4. It is accepted that in or around the 20 January 2018, the
Defendant sold the Claimant a Vauxhall Astra Registration nnnnnn

5. Prior to selling the Vehicle to the Claimant the Vehicle was
subject to a pre-delivery inspection.

6. The Vehicle was also sold with a valid MOT certificate which
was issued by an independent third-party DVSA approved garage.

7. The Claimant has pleaded that following their purchase of the
Vehicle they identified a number of minor faults which were
present with the Vehicle.

8. s22 CRA 2015 states in order for a consumer to seek to enforce
their short term right to reject, the Vehicle must have a fault
that renders the Vehicle of unsatisfactory quality which was
present at the point of sale. As the provisions of s19(14) CRA
2015 do not apply to a consumer’s short term right to reject, the
burden was upon the Claimant to provide evidence to support their
allegations.

9. The Defendant believes that had the issues been present at the
point of sale when the Claimant took possession of the Vehicle it
would have been reasonable for them to have been identified these
issues. The Defendant seeks to rely upon the provisions s9(4)(b)
which states when considering if a fault would render a Vehicle
of an unsatisfactory quality, a consumer cannot seek to rely upon
any issue which would have been reasonable for them to have
identified when inspecting the Vehicle.

10. The Defendant will aver that the Claimant failed to provide
any evidence in support of their allegations that the Vehicle had
a fault which would render it of an unsatisfactory quality and
that such a fault was present at the point of sale.

11. The Defendant believes that none of the faults which the
Claimant has pleaded would be sufficient render a 5-year-old
Vehicle which had completed in excess of 136,000 miles at the
point of sale of an unsatisfactory quality therefore it denied
that the Claimant is entitled to enforce their short term right
to reject.

12. The Defendant also believes the Claimant has also prejudiced
their position in issuing proceedings without adducing any
evidence in support of their allegations.

13. The Defendant denies all liability in this matter.

____________________

Point 5) of the defence indicates that a pre inspection of the car was carried out.
That seems contradictory to the email from the seller saying he would send me the missing panels.
It also indicates that point 9) The vehicle was indeed not inspected.

The first letter I received from the sellers solicitor stated that I not only inspected the vehicle but took it for a test drive.
I do not believe this is the actions of a dishonest solicitor but the solicitor has a dishonest client.
I have put up with lies from the start. It is very disheartening.

[des8]

You are fortunate IMO that the defendant does not deny that the vehicle did not conform to the advert (good condition) which is the basis of your rejection.
He has settled on "of not satisfactory quality" which was not your complaint,and is a different matter.
You should read and get to know the Consumer Rights Act 2015. .(http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ntents/enacted)
You will need to show what "good condition" is for a used vehicle, and demonstrate how this car fails that test.and concentrate on that at the trial.
It is the judge who will determine if you win or not, so it is he you must convince


Kelly Blue book describes Good Condition as:

• Good condition means that the vehicle is free of any major defects. This vehicle has a clean Title History, the paint, body and interior have only minor (if any) blemishes, and there are no major mechanical problems. There should be little or no rust on this vehicle. The tires match and have substantial tread wear left. A "good" vehicle will need some reconditioning to be sold at retail. Most consumer owned vehicles fall into this category.

PS start work on your WS!!

[jerry12x]

Lol. Minor blemishes. This is the drivers door way.

[thedirtyhound]

I don't want to put a dampener on things for you, but what you show above is hardly compelling evidence. What we see here is just a blow up of minor scratches. You bought a five year old, high mileage vehicle. It is an ex-police car, so you know it has been well maintained and that the mileage is genuine. The car has an MOT issued by an independent test station, so it is in good mechanical order. Nothing I have seen from you on here is really anything major, even the missing panels. You also appear to have issued a claim without getting all your facts and evidence together beforehand. you should have fully confronted the vendor with all the faults and, if necessary, got an engineer's report. This car has done over 130,000 miles. You also should have looked at it before you bought it. Just what did you expect?

[Phaeton]

I won't go into the details for the case as I'm sure you're getting better advice from others about being stitched up like a kipper, but with regards Ebay messages, they can either be printed or you can download them into a .zip file in HTML format so they can be viewed in a browser.

[des8]

Ok your particulars of claim are poor, and possibly you didn't base your claim on the easiest win.
Firstly did you tell the seller you had changed your mind and were returning the vehicle under consumer regulations regarding distance selling?
That would have been your easiest claim, but we may be able to work it into your WS if you have it in writing.
Regardless of whether the scratches are individually minor or not, the number is IMO a problem for a seller who describes the car as "good condition all round"".
Similarly if the heating, cooling and the radio can't be operated IMO it is not in good condition
Whilst it is important to take mileage into consideration it is misleading to describe a car as good all round condition without also mentioning faults.
As suggested in post 5 independent confirmation of the faults should be sought

[jerry12x]

Independent confirmation of the faults would have been expensive.
I asked my local Vauxhall dealership for a car check and estimate for repairs and they said bring the car in.
That could have cost me up to £100 each way to have it transported.

The heating and cooling can be operated to a degree without the display but not completely, the visual display would show you how everything is set. (Climate control).
The audio system can not be controlled without the display.
It covers date, time, radio, phone, mp3, station select, tone controls, RDS traffic. Possibly more.
Good condition all round told me all that was working.

I did mention returning the vehicle under consumer regulations regarding distance as you can see below but because the car was not as advertised, decided against it, it would also save me £150 to have the car transported back to the seller.
I have to admit, I found the sellers attitude very off putting and did not feel safe having parted with so much money to them.
My fears were confirmed when I took a look at car dealer reviews and saw how people had reviewed them.
They failed multiple times to repair faults and mostly did not even attempt to.
Frankly, I was appauled.
His attitude towards the problem as shown in his emails told me it was not possible to resolve the problem without outside intervention.
His solicitors letter saying I not only inspected the car but took it for a test drive was the final straw.
Possibly I could have handled it better but I felt provoked all the way through.


Sent:20-Jan-18 21:57
YOU:

The condition of this car is not as advertised.
"GOOD CONDITION ALL ROUND".
Two plastic panels are missing.
One large one that is the bottom of the drivers compartment against the centre column where masses of wire are on display.
The other panel is a piece forward of the gearstick where You see various mechanical bits.
The inside of the drivers door has been battered and looks a mess, as does the door frame it closes on.
The rubber seal is badly perrished in two places and is coming away from the car at the bottom.
The display in the centre console half works meaning it is totally useless.
Nothing else has been tried.
My sister was so upset and I don't blame her.
What do you intend to do about it?
I am not after a reduction in price, I want it GOOD CONDITION ALL ROUND.
Regards, Jerry
________________________________________________

20-Jan-18 23:22

Hi jerry
Our driver delivered this car personally. the car was checked by urself before accepting delivery. Has you agreed and accepted that the car is a 4 n half year old car and has driven 137,000 miles also is a police car has you have got to accepted Has you was made aware its obviously not showroom condition.
If you are looking for a showroom condition car then a second hand car is not what you should buy i suggest.
Thanks
__________________________________________________

20-Jan-18 23:48
YOU:

The car was not checked by myself on delivery as your
driver will tell you.
I bloody trusted you.
I am not looking for a showroom condition car but please
get the main parts right.
I have tried taking photographs but useless at night.
Do I need to go through all the legal channels?
Are you are a con artist?
Things are not just broke but missing.
__________________________________________________ ______

21-Jan-18 00:06

Dear jerry
Points of concern to myself .
The car was delivered to yourself .
And checked by yourself has iv been made aware of. .
Im actually astonished from your response .
Has you told me that you was amazed with the car
And you actually was overwhelmed with its condition .
Unfortunately There is nothing that i can do at this
point.
Im more than happy to offer my help to you in the future
.
Cheers
__________________________________________________ _____

21-Jan-18 11:22
YOU:

Not very good but this is what you have given me.
The one with the gearstick is too dark to see properly.
You must have those plastics .

3 pictures of faults
__________________________________________________ _____

21-Jan-18 00:46
YOU:

Please. it is obvious this is going to court but please send the panels you forgot to put back in the car.
Had I actually checked the car, it would not have been accepted.
You know that. Please don't be a totally bad person.
__________________________________________________ _____

21-Jan-18 12:27
YOU:

Under the Consumer Rights Act of 2015 I have the right to reject something faulty
and I am entitled to a full refund within 30 days of purchase.
The option is that you put right what is wrong with the car.
Please let me know your intentions and I will take the appropriate action.
__________________________________________________ _____

22-0Jan-18 22:15
Hi Jerry

We will get these parts sent out to you, but in future I advise you to check the car over before accepting it as this car cause a lot of problems for us.
Thanks
__________________________________________________ ___________

22-Jan-18 23:33
YOU:

There is more than those panels that needs sorting out.
The display on the center console is broken.
I have not even started the engine on it yet so other things could be wrong.
I am going to the Citizens Advice tomorrow to arrange for a refund.
If you would like me to take it to Vauxhall in Chorley and you arrange for them to put everything right, I would do that.
You should have checked the car out before you sold it.
It is clear that you didn't.
Let me know what you would like me to do.
__________________________________________________ ______________

22-Jan-18 23:41
Hi jerry

I have agreed on what you have asked me to do to send you the panels, if you are not happy with that then we will sort this out in the long run. We sold the car in good condition, the photos that were taken of the car which you seen before purchasing it show that there are no parts missing. There were plenty of photos on the advert as you know of obviously. My offer stands to send you the panels up as you asked me to but thats it.

Thanks
__________________________________________________ _______________

22-Jan-18 23:56
YOU:

You either agree to have Vauxhall in Chorley put right what is wrong with it, which means you sending the parts and they fit them.
I would never attempt to replace the display in the center console.
I would also expect them to secure the front bumper.
Otherwise I do the refund.
__________________________________________________ ______________

23-Jan-18 00:13
YOU:

For your information...
I printed out the advert earlier to take to show citizens advice.
Most adverts show at least one photo of the interior. Yours didn't for some strange reason.


*************EDIT************ The ebay advert was edited beyond recognition a day later.

[des8]

Points understood, but it is for you the claimant to PROVE that the vehicle is not as described, i.e. not in good condition all round.
It could be that the judge, depending on what the defence say, won't accept that your statement alone is sufficient to prove your claim.
As was said above in post 23 a third party may well not find your assertions compelling
That is why you should have considered obtaining an independent opinion and report.

Why do you need to have the car transported for an inspection? Isn't it capable of being driven?
If it had been done before filing the claim you could have reclaimed the cost as damages

[jerry12x]

To drive it, I would have to tax and insure it.
It is currently on private land.
The engine has not even been started.

I was under the impression that I could not claim more than the cost of the car and county court cost.
Meaning if I had to pay for storing the car, that would be lost money.

[des8]

To drive it, I would have to tax and insure it.
It is currently on private land.
The engine has not even been started.

I was under the impression that I could not claim more than the cost of the car and county court cost.
Meaning if I had to pay for storing the car, that would be lost money.

Bit late now but CRA 2015 specifically states remedies include claiming damages

[jerry12x]

My automatic reply would be that CRA 2015 was never designed to "educate" the public.
It appears like something put in place while people were watching Coronation Street.