**. Won **. Car not as advertised - court claim - eBay

[jerry12x]

I bought a car through ebay that was not as advertised.
I emailed the seller, sending him photo's of the problem and he told me to get lost.
I opened a county court claim but there is a lot of tooing and frowing between solicitors.
The sellers solicitor is dragging it out, replying once a month to letters sent to him within days of receiving his reply.
The sellers defence claims that I never sent him photographic evidence of any problems.
I did through ebay messages which are accepted as proof in a court of law but messages are automatically deleted by ebay after 6 months.
I can see them now but by the time it goes to court they will have been deleted by ebay.
I have pleaded with ebay to save the messages but they say it is not possible.

Does anyone know how I can save my evidence?
I assume Screen shots, which could be altered, are not acceptable in court.
I can save the ebay messages to my desktop but again they could be edited.
I also assume for ebay messages to be acceptable in court, they would have to be displayed on a device connected to ebay.
Help!!!

[paulajayne]

Private seller?
Did you view and test the car before purchase?
In what way was the vehicle not as advertised?
Did you not check it was as advertised before purchase?

[jerry12x]

It was sold on ebay described as good condition all round.
I was not able to see or test the car before paying for it.
It was delivered at 8pm in January, too dark to inspect and I was in the middle of a meal.
I never expected car dealers still lie anymore since distance selling has you covered.
The faults with the car were two large plastic panels that cover mechanical parts and wiring around the centre console were missing.
The rubber seal round the drivers doorway was badly perished and coming away.
The centre console display that controls the audio functions and temperature control was broken.
The front bumper was lose with nuts and bolts missing.
I had paid £3300 for the car including delivery.
The seller was a smallish time dealer that after looking on car reviews, seems to do this often.

[seduraed]

take screenshots of the messages and and the communications. Print them out.keep a backup copy on a removeable medium. these are vital so you need defence in depth.

[des8]

You say "I opened a county court claim "
Have you initiated court action, ie filed a claim or just have a solicitor working on it.
If you have employed a solicitor have they given you an estimate of their costs.?
Even if you win a £3300 claim in the county court your solicitor's costs could consume most if not all of it.

Have the faults confirmed by a garage.

[jerry12x]

Initially after my complaint, I got a solicitors letter from the seller saying I have no possibility of winning a claim in this case.
He stated that I not only inspected the car before purchase but took it for a test drive.
Because of the blatant lies, the very next thing I did was to initiate the County Court Claim at a cost of £185.
I was initially outraged by what the solicitor was trying to do but realised that he was only working with what his client had told him.
I am at a stage where I am with MCOL and have agreed to arbitration. The seller has not returned the form agreeing to arbitration.
With the delays they are forcing on the case, I am wondering if they are deliberately trying to make my ebay evidence disappear.

My son is acting as my solicitor. He is NOT a solicitor. He is a doctor of philosophy.
He has done one term of a law degree.
Basically he is busking it but he is bright.

The seller did offer to collect the car, have it repaired and return it to me.
Car seller reviews tell me he has attempted this for people and not repaired the faults. He is regarded very poorly by his customers.
The amount of lies he has told leave me in a position of No trust.

The seller has also offered to give me a full refund that did not include the £185 for County Court Claim. I refused.

The seller then asked me to get an estimate for the repairs.
I responded that he must have the car delivered to Vauxhall to have it evaluated at his cost. He refused.
The car is on private land, not taxed or insured. I have not even started the engine.

It is easy for me to take screenshots of the message I want saved, I can also download it to my computer.
The problem is that these images can be doctored and therefore not regarded as indisputable evidence in a court of law.

[des8]

How much did you pay for the car, what age and mileage?
When did you buy the car?
On what date did you tell the seller you were rejecting the vehicle/
If it was in the first 30 days you have to prove the faults were present when purchased.
If during the subsequent 5 months it is deemed that the faults were present when purchased.

When did you initiate court action, and how far down the process are you?

I wouldn't worry too much about "indisputable" proof as small claims are decided on basis of probability

[thedirtyhound]

Have you double checked the imformation on eBay to make sure that the seller was a trade seller? If he was a private seller, you have no chance. You paid for the car without seeing it, you didn't check it because you were having a meal when he delivered it and after looking at car reviews, you discovered he seems to do this often. One one hand you have my sympathy, but on the other it is hard to feel too sorry for you. If ever you need to be vigilant when buying something, motor cars comes top of the list. Giving you a full refund minus the court fee doesn't seem like a bad result to me.

[jerry12x]

I paid £3200 plus £100 delivery for a 2013 Vauxhall Astra ex police car that has done 137,000 miles on 20th January this year.
It was delivered 8pm at night in poor street lighting.
I took a torch an hour later to take a look. I turned the ignition on but did not start the car.
I emailed the seller straight away explaining the faults. Photographic evidence was sent to the seller at 11am the following day.
This was his word for word reply.......

"Our driver delivered this car personally. the car was checked by urself before accepting delivery. Has you agreed and accepted that the car is a 4 n half year old car and has driven 137,000 miles also is a police car has you have got to accepted Has you was made aware its obviously not showroom condition.
If you are looking for a showroom condition car then a second hand car is not what you should buy i suggest.
Thanks"

I went the way of the CAB advice sending 'Letter to complain about faulty goods' and 'Letter before court claim' before making the court claim on 19th February.
The position I am at is I have replied to the court to agree to arbitration but the defendant has not.
He seems to be playing for time. The court will send him a reminder this week.
The defence claim is that I never gave any evidence of anything being faulty.

I have to add that this car was for my sister, I had bought my own car exactly the same way 4 days prior.
I was not concerned about being sold a dog because of distance selling regulations that are in place to protect buyers from this sort of behaviour.
I wrongly assumed that sellers were aware of distance selling regulations too.

The seller currently has over 25 vehicles on ebay.

[des8]

If you purchased the car from a private seller and relied on the description and paid for it prior to delivery you do have the basis of a claim.

The court process is in motion and will work on inexorably.

You reference the distance selling regulations; was this the basis of your claim or did you cite the Consumer Rights Act 2015 in your PoC?

[jerry12x]

I think it must be the Consumer Rights Act 2015 because it was significantly not Good Condition all round.
Had I used the distance selling, it would have been up to me to return the car to the seller.

Here is the proof I have currently on my ebay account until they delete it.

The seller did offer to send the missing plastics the day after I sent him the photo evidence....
22-Jan-18 23:41
Hi
I have agreed on what you have asked me to do to send you the panels, we sold the car in good condition. There were plenty of photos on the advert as you know of obviously. My offer stands to send you the panels up as you asked me to but thats it.

Strangely, every photo in the advert was of the exterior. Non of the interior.

Capturea.PNG

[jerry12x]

[des8]

As the vehicle had 137,000 miles on the clock you may have trouble convincing a judge that the problems you have mentioned here make the vehicle unsatisfactory.
If however your POC claims breach of contract because the car did not match its description (good condition) you might have more chance.

Have you actually told the dealer that you are rejecting the car, not just complained about it?
Can you post up a copy of your POC, first removing all identifying details?

[jerry12x]

The centre console display is used for the cooling heating system but the display is not essential for it's use.
It is also used with all audio functions, radio, phone, mp3 etc.
Without the display functional, a phone can not be used hands free and I can not listen to my music.
I never listen to radio.
While I would agree that the audio system is not needed for the running of the car, the car was advertised as good condition all round which meant the audio system was fully functional.
I would not have purchased a car without a functioning audio system.

I did not mention that the drivers doorway looks like it has been savagely attacked with a screwdriver and with the rubber seal coming away at the floor, looks really unsightly.
These are things that make the car Not the way it was advertised.
I do not consider that a reasonable person would neglect to mention the faults present.

Through a letter posted today, the seller is being made aware that I will no longer accept that the car be repaired, as after the constant lies from the seller, I have zero confidence in his ability to have the car put right.

I am at a loss as to POC.
If it refers to point of commencement with the county court, my criticism of the car was that it was not as described.
I pointed out where it deviated from good condition all round including the fact that it has not been driven, so other faults could be present.
There are chips and scratches around the car as is expected from a car that old.
Please... What does POC mean, I am not at all legally minded.

[des8]

Sorry.. I thought your son was assisting you and was au fait with the terminology.
POC = particulars of claim where you set out your case and specify the facts you will rely on.

If you are new to all this you may find this guide useful.;https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-cont...+web+FINAL.pdf
Not all of it will apply to your case