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Reply and Defence to Counterclaim

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  • Reply and Defence to Counterclaim

    Good afternoon.
    I have tried to find a similar topic and thread but struggling.

    i filed a MCoL to an individual Person A, that still owes me money. I loaned £7000 Interest Free jointly to Person A and Person B, jointly with their verbal agreement on trust, to which regular monthly repayments were being made back to me separately by Person A & Person B. These payments from PErson A stopped in August 2017 with a balance outstanding of £1500. Person B has continued to make monthly payments Andy thus almost reduce their liability.

    I tried to be reasonable and send a text asking if the money would be repaid at any time, to which Person A stated it was a given as a gift and wouldn't be getting my money back.

    i sent a letter in Decemeber outlining all the facts and giving person A the opportunity to pay in instalments. I was very reasonable about this. I requested a response by 20 December or I would progress a claim through MCOL.

    I did is on 9 January 2018 as I had heard nothing.
    Today I received a defence to my claim stating that this was a gift and Person B should pay back this money to me. (this is due to a property dispute and issue they have with each other) and Person A seems to be using the issues with Person B and the jointly owned property to defend this amount owed.
    There is a counterclaim against me also in the amount of £2000 which is the amount Person A has repaid back to me from the amount originally loaned. There's is no explanation as to how this money is owed to Person A.
    the counterclaimmfor £2000 plus court fee states:
    Counterclaim. 4.
    The amount of £2000 inc court fee for money owed to me from Mr XXX (me)
    Reasons.
    Mr XXX gifted myself and Person B a total of £7000. MYself and Oerson B felt bad for Mr XXX giving us this money so we gave Mr XXX different amounts of money back when we could tomease the guilt. IN total I have paid Mr XXX £2000 towards the house. HOwever due to the end of the relationship between myself and Person B it s being discussed through solicitors (property is, this matter is not) but I am happy to sign the house over to him we are just ironing out the finer details....blah blah blah. I didn't not benefit from this £7000 it went straight to the mortgage company. therefore with signing the house over I will not be benefitting from this money put into the house,,,,, Person A continues to Make statements about the property (which has nothing to do with me whatsoever) Person A then states court orders obtained against Person B.
    there is then a list of payments Person A has made to me., which all have the wrong year on!!

    would anyone be able to assist with a reply and defence template. please note i deny everything in the defence, it is completely fanciful, much if it completely irrelevant and I have evidence and witnesses to back this up.

    many thanks
    Ollie
    Last edited by Ollieb123; 21st March 2018, 16:57:PM. Reason: UPdate.... *****CASE
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Reply and Defence to Counterclaim

    Morning Ollie

    This is a sad situation for you after you were generous enough to help them out when, presumably, they were in a bit of a pickle. Now they have an issue between themselves you're being caught up in.

    Firstly was this money used for a deposit on the property ( just checking you haven't signed anything with the mortgage company to confirm the money was a gift as sometimes happens )
    Or for arrears ? Was it a condition of the loan that it was used for the property ?

    So you need to defend the counterclaim and reply to the defence. Should be quite straightforward.

    You'd lay out much as you would a standard defence... and then serve a copy on Person A and send to the court ( you can normally email it to the court if you put it on a PDF )

    Has Person A laid out their defence and counterclaim in paragraphs ? easiest way is to refer to those in your reply and defence. Or is it just a block of text ? Might be worth posting the entire document and your original claim.

    In the Northampton County Court Business Centre
    Claim No XXXXX
    Your name

    v

    Person A name
    Date 2018


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Reply to Defence
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1.
    2.
    3.
    4.
    5.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Defence to Counterclaim
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1.
    2.
    3.
    4.
    5. It is denied that Person A is entitled to the sum claimed.


    Statement of Truth

    I believe that the facts stated in this Reply and Defence are true.

    Signed ________________________________

    Dated _______________________________
    Last edited by Amethyst; 19th January 2018, 07:56:AM.
    #staysafestayhome

    Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Reply and Defence to Counterclaim

      Moving your thread into the court forum xxx


      For future ref email for Northampton CCBC;
      Claim responses & directions: ccbcaq@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk
      Subject: DEFENCE & REPLY xxxxx v xxxxxxxxx - Claim XXXXX
      #staysafestayhome

      Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

      Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Reply and Defence to Counterclaim

        Thank you so much for the response.
        the money was loaned via verbal agreement and witnessed by three other people. A paper was signed a couple of weeks later saying it was a gift for building society purposes, I wasn't aware that is what it was, I was just asked to sign ....however there is nothing on there that would implicate me, only insofar as the only paragraph states that I have no financial interest in the property. Which I don't! ObviouSly if the court decide this is an issue, there would be a further implication, of possible mortgage fraud?? Not on me,,but perhaps as could be implicated?

        there was nothing verbalised or written that the money was to be used for the house, only the paper I asked their building society for. I have had this form checked by a solicitor who states that there is nothing legal or otherwise on that form that would make me liable or would be of any use in any court case?

        I wondered if when replying and defending to the counterclaim, am I still the claimant in the reply, but become the defendant in the defence to the counterclaim?
        the case has been transferred to a local court and it states ' as this claim has been defended, you are now the defendant, so please respond accordingly, which is the part I am confused about.
        Person A has written one continuous statement, in both the defence no counterclaim which I have broken down into sentences and structured as you suggested in the reply and defence, by numbering the paragraphs. As I said, I don't know if I am still the Claimant, or the Defendant.

        would I be able to email you the documents and remove identifiers please?

        Thank you you so much once again for the prompt attention.
        oliie

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Reply and Defence to Counterclaim

          Sorry, to repost, there is an allocation questionnaire that has to be returned by 5 Feb, but no mention anywhere of when the reply and defence has to be returned by?

          Should I opt for mediation,never though I know that the other party will not even entertain it as this person has threatened all sorts of court orders, police, claiming harassment, accusations of theft of property etc. I have no doubt that if they had still been in a relationship, this would have been a non issue, as person A would have still been repaying the outstanding financial obligation to me.
          Thanka again
          Ollie

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Reply and Defence to Counterclaim

            Originally posted by Ollieb123
            Sorry, to repost, there is an allocation questionnaire that has to be returned by 5 Feb, but no mention anywhere of when the reply and defence has to be returned by?

            Should I opt for mediation,never though I know that the other party will not even entertain it as this person has threatened all sorts of court orders, police, claiming harassment, accusations of theft of property etc. I have no doubt that if they had still been in a relationship, this would have been a non issue, as person A would have still been repaying the outstanding financial obligation to me.
            Thanka again
            Ollie
            The Reply to Defence and Counterclaim would go in with the allocation questionnaire. When that's returned you should also serve a copy on the other side.

            Yes you should opt for mediation as it's a useful back up if you decide to try and sort this out outside of court.

            Originally posted by Ollieb123 View Post
            Thank you so much for the response.
            the money was loaned via verbal agreement and witnessed by three other people. A paper was signed a couple of weeks later saying it was a gift for building society purposes, I wasn't aware that is what it was, I was just asked to sign ....however there is nothing on there that would implicate me, only insofar as the only paragraph states that I have no financial interest in the property. Which I don't! ObviouSly if the court decide this is an issue, there would be a further implication, of possible mortgage fraud?? Not on me,,but perhaps as could be implicated?

            there was nothing verbalised or written that the money was to be used for the house, only the paper I asked their building society for. I have had this form checked by a solicitor who states that there is nothing legal or otherwise on that form that would make me liable or would be of any use in any court case?

            I wondered if when replying and defending to the counterclaim, am I still the claimant in the reply, but become the defendant in the defence to the counterclaim?
            the case has been transferred to a local court and it states ' as this claim has been defended, you are now the defendant, so please respond accordingly, which is the part I am confused about.
            Person A has written one continuous statement, in both the defence no counterclaim which I have broken down into sentences and structured as you suggested in the reply and defence, by numbering the paragraphs. As I said, I don't know if I am still the Claimant, or the Defendant.

            would I be able to email you the documents and remove identifiers please?

            Thank you you so much once again for the prompt attention.
            oliie
            Ahhh okay. Did you keep a copy of that paper ? Has the defendant mentioned it at all ? Was the money used as a deposit for their house or to pay off some arrears etc ?

            I have had this form checked by a solicitor who states that there is nothing legal or otherwise on that form that would make me liable or would be of any use in any court case?
            Were you asking the solicitor specifically about this situation ( recouping your money from the Defendant ) or were you asking if it made you liable should they, for instance, stop making mortgage payments etc ?

            as this claim has been defended, you are now the defendant, so please respond accordingly
            Nope that makes no sense to me either. Might do if it said There is now a counterclaim ... or something like that.
            You are the Defendant in the Counterclaim, but the Claimant in the main claim - it confuses heck out of me too - it is easier with something like an application where you become applicant or respondent - when I've written any previously I've tended to resort to using names on both sides to save getting confused.

            all sorts of court orders, police, claiming harassment, accusations of theft of property etc.
            What the heck is that about then ? Have you actually done anything that could have been construed as harrassment or theft at all ?

            Have you discussed the matter with Person B btw ? What are their thoughts - are they as angry as Person A or willing to cover the rest of the loan themselves ?
            #staysafestayhome

            Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

            Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Reply and Defence to Counterclaim

              There is no date whatsoever on any of the paperwork when replies have to be sent/served. The only date is the 5th February for the allocation questionnaire, which in itself is a bit of a strange form.
              Yes I have a copy of this paper. Person A hasn't mentioned it at all in the defence, counterclaim etc., just states Gift. Perhaps Person A is relying on this in court as evidence.
              apprently, after this money was transferred to Person B's bank account, Person A and B decided to use it as the deposit for a house purchase. Hence two weeks later get this form to sign.. I have read that if money is intended as a true gift, for a house purchase then their conveyancing solicitor should have, by law, requested ID in the form of passport, driving licence, utility bill etc from the donor, due to money laundering regulations. I'm not too sure about this point though.

              I I asked the solicitor about this form only, not about my subsequent claim after person A refused to repay the agreed monthly repayments.

              I I don't know with regards to the threats of police and courts, that does not worry me., person A has issues with person B, so my theory is that they should be taken up with person B and that my claim and `person A is seemingly trying to dilute fhe claim and counterclaim by offering up the issues with person B. I really want to state this on the reply and defence as person A has referred to these matters frequently in the defence and counterclaim.

              IMhave made Person B aware that I have commenced proceedings against Person A, but I feel this is not Person B's matter. I am intending to rely on Person B plus two,other witnesses if needed.

              Also, do `i need to submit witness statements at this time,many evidence such as text messages sent and received?

              thanks again for giving up your time.
              Ollie

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Reply and Defence to Counterclaim

                The counterclaim should be defended within 14 days of service though, so send your AQ back at the same time. It's the N180 ? ( https://formfinder.hmctsformfinder.j...k/n180-eng.pdf ) ??

                Witness Statements will not be until after the claim has been allocated to your local court and they have issued directions - so all the whys whats wherefores will wait for then

                I'm going to have to do some reading on this 'gift' issue. I do feel if you stated it as a gift for the building society that's going to clobber you - but Person A hasn't mentioned it so they might just be using you as a kind of battering ram against Person B without too much thought having gone in to it.
                #staysafestayhome

                Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Reply and Defence to Counterclaim

                  Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
                  The counterclaim should be defended within 14 days of service though, so send your AQ back at the same time. It's the N180 ? ( https://formfinder.hmctsformfinder.j...k/n180-eng.pdf ) ??

                  Witness Statements will not be until after the claim has been allocated to your local court and they have issued directions - so all the whys whats wherefores will wait for then
                  thnk you - it has already been allocated to the local court, and there are no directions, only saying that the AQ has to be returned by 5 February.

                  I'm going to have to do some reading on this 'gift' issue. I do feel if you stated it as a gift for the building society that's going to clobber you - but Person A hasn't mentioned it so they might just be using you as a kind of battering ram against Person B without too much thought having gone in to it.
                  We didn't gift it for the purpose of the building society, it was a loan, which was given in full knowledge and repayment terms however, later Person A and B decided they needed to put it towards their house purchase.
                  different building societies have different forms and wording, there isn't a single one I've found that are of the same prescribed format, which is confusing the matter for me.

                  really appreciate your help, and much needed support.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Good afternoon,
                    well, the reply and defence were posted both to the local court and other party as requested.
                    i sent these by Royal Mail, guaranteed signed for delivery. The court have received theirs, however the other party has alleged to have 'gone away' and so the forms have been refused.
                    i rang the court who have told me to call the CAB as they aren't legally trained!!!!!!! Surely thy know the procedures?!!!! THe CAB cant help me either.
                    what do I do now?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi

                      I have some personal experience of going to court to recover a loan when the agreement was made verbally and then the debtor tries to argue it was not a loan as a Litigant in Person (representing myself).

                      You should have got it in writing, as should I and it's a lesson learnt the hard way.

                      However, my personal experience had a positive outcome for me and if the right steps are taken so could yours for you.

                      If the money was a gift why was the Defendant making repayments to you at regular intervals? One doesn't make payments at regular intervals to return a gift. They can assert they felt guilty all they want, but the judge will have to believe it. This is what my case hung on as I didn't have a witness to get a statement from, but you do!

                      As their relationship has broken down it may well be that B is more than willing to give you a witness statement to the effect that it was a loan of £7,000 to be repaid equally by both parties. Approach them and ask? If you can get this it'll strengthen your case.

                      The key is going to be to overcoming the paper stating it was a gift for the house. The fact that you signed it and the signature can be compared to the court documents you have signed would make this a really hard argument to a judge if they accept it.

                      If it didn't state it was gift you could dismiss it as you comforting A & B that you didn't care what the money was for because you expected them to repay the loan and that was your only concern. Ideally you don't want to have to mention it in case the defendant has forgotten about it or lost it.

                      The Defendant is doing what a lot of people do in this circumstance, they are trying to assert that the money wasn't loaned to them and that as it went to something they did not have the benefit of the loan. I worked in a bank once upon a time and I can tell you that regardless of what the person spends the loan money on it doesn't matter, even if it's completely different to what they said they want it for.

                      Seeing your Particulars of Claim and Reply to Defence would be useful (with personal information removed of course).
                      COMPLETING AN N180 DIRECTIONS QUESTIONNAIRE (SMALL CLAIMS TRACK) GUIDE

                      My posts here are based on my experience of a variety of life events. I have no formal legal training & if in doubt take professional legal advice or contact CAB. If you follow anything I write here you do so at your own risk & I accept no liability for any loss, costs or other outcomes.

                      Private messages are disabled as help is only offered publicly. I do not come on here in the evening, at weekends or on public holidays.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thank you so much for the response...
                        Originally posted by jaguarsuk View Post
                        Hi

                        I have some personal experience of going to court to recover a loan when the agreement was made verbally and then the debtor tries to argue it was not a loan as a Litigant in Person (representing myself).

                        You should have got it in writing, as should I and it's a lesson learnt the hard way. I know,,! However, you don't expect family members to pull this kind of stunt!

                        However, my personal experience had a positive outcome for me and if the right steps are taken so could yours for you. I hope so

                        If the money was a gift why was the Defendant making repayments to you at regular intervals? Quite! One doesn't make payments at regular intervals to return a gift. They can assert they felt guilty all they want, but the judge will have to believe it. This is what my case hung on as I didn't have a witness to get a statement from, but you do!

                        As their relationship has broken down it may well be that B is more than willing to give you a witness statement to the effect that it was a loan of £7,000 to be repaid equally by both parties. Approach them and ask? If you can get this it'll strengthen your case. The two witnesses have already written a statement for me and the court if needed.

                        The key is going to be to overcoming the paper stating it was a gift for the house. The fact that you signed it and the signature can be compared to the court documents you have signed would make this a really hard argument to a judge if they accept it.

                        If it didn't state it was gift you could dismiss it as you comforting A & B that you didn't care what the money was for because you expected them to repay the loan and that was your only concern. Ideally you don't want to have to mention it in case the defendant has forgotten about it or lost it. ...and that is it in a nutshell!

                        The Defendant is doing what a lot of people do in this circumstance, they are trying to assert that the money wasn't loaned to them and that as it went to something they did not have the benefit of the loan. I worked in a bank once upon a time and I can tell you that regardless of what the person spends the loan money on it doesn't matter, even if it's completely different to what they said they want it for.

                        Seeing your Particulars of Claim and Reply to Defence would be useful (with personal information removed of course).
                        Can I email the docs to you?
                        although I have addde to the post, court have received the documents but other party has not... someone at ththe address has claimed that they have gone away!!!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The Witness Statements are excellent. If one of them is B even better, if not still ask B because the fact they are a party of the loan plus and extra witness just makes things better.

                          Dont email them to me, as I don’t need to know your personal information. email them to:

                          Kati

                          she’ll come along to post an email address soon. All worth a look are:

                          Paticulars of Claim/Claim Form
                          Defence
                          Reply to Defence
                          Witness Statements
                          COMPLETING AN N180 DIRECTIONS QUESTIONNAIRE (SMALL CLAIMS TRACK) GUIDE

                          My posts here are based on my experience of a variety of life events. I have no formal legal training & if in doubt take professional legal advice or contact CAB. If you follow anything I write here you do so at your own risk & I accept no liability for any loss, costs or other outcomes.

                          Private messages are disabled as help is only offered publicly. I do not come on here in the evening, at weekends or on public holidays.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Don’t worry about them having gone away. Your only obligation in serving documents is to send them by normal post.

                            As as long as the court get your documents in a timely manner that’s all that counts. Once the claim starts it is the responsibility of both parties to inform the court and every other party if their addrsss changes, as you have not had that you post to the same addres and get proof of posting.
                            COMPLETING AN N180 DIRECTIONS QUESTIONNAIRE (SMALL CLAIMS TRACK) GUIDE

                            My posts here are based on my experience of a variety of life events. I have no formal legal training & if in doubt take professional legal advice or contact CAB. If you follow anything I write here you do so at your own risk & I accept no liability for any loss, costs or other outcomes.

                            Private messages are disabled as help is only offered publicly. I do not come on here in the evening, at weekends or on public holidays.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jaguarsuk View Post
                              Dont email them to me, as I don’t need to know your personal information. email them to:

                              Kati

                              she’ll come along to post an email address soon. All worth a look are:

                              Paticulars of Claim/Claim Form
                              Defence
                              Reply to Defence
                              Witness Statements
                              kati@legalbeagles.info

                              Please try to make sure you give me a link to this thread (or tell me your username) in the email so that I know who's post/thread I am looking for xx

                              Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

                              It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

                              recte agens confido

                              ~~~~~

                              Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                              I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
                              But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

                              Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

                              Comment

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