German Court fine

[ukracer]

Hi

Not sure if this is the right forum but here goes. Mods please move it if now...

My son was involved in a car accident in Germany.

Its actually a very long story but in essence the German driver was extensively exceeding the speed limit and on the wrong side of the road seemingly out of control. My son took evasive action and was hit by the german drivers car who turned into them at the last minute.

My son was in my car as a named driver and I paid fully comprehensive insurance.

Sadly Esure have a clause in their terms and conditions that require you to inform them if you go abroad and effectively reduce your cover to the minimum required in the country you have the accident in.

So we have lost the money for my car as the German driver is trying to make a claim against my son.

Biggest problem is everything is in German and they refuse to reply in English.

The Police took 1000 Euros from my son and they insisted it was in cash.

He has received some paper work which is in German but seems to say he is being fined for being on the wrong side of the road... {100 Euros Plus costs 28.50 Euros}.which he does not deny but with over a ton of metal hurtling at you over 120 MPH and a barrier to your right I guess most would actually take evasive action.

Anyway no one will tell us how to proceed with disputing the fine and no one will reply to his emails asking if this will be taken from the 1000 Euros he has given them as a bond...or does he have to pay more money and hope he gets his 1000 Euros back at some stage ..................in fact they are completely useless and a perfect example of why being in Europe is a joke.

Please can any one advice me how to proceed.

Regards Andy T

[Kati]

Re: German Court fine

Hi

Not sure if this is the right forum but here goes. Mods please move it if now...

My son was involved in a car accident in Germany.

Its actually a very long story but in essence the German driver was extensively exceeding the speed limit and on the wrong side of the road seemingly out of control. My son took evasive action and was hit by the german drivers car who turned into them at the last minute.

My son was in my car as a named driver and I paid fully comprehensive insurance.

Sadly Esure have a clause in their terms and conditions that require you to inform them if you go abroad and effectively reduce your cover to the minimum required in the country you have the accident in.

So we have lost the money for my car as the German driver is trying to make a claim against my son.

Biggest problem is everything is in German and they refuse to reply in English.

The Police took 1000 Euros from my son and they insisted it was in cash.

He has received some paper work which is in German but seems to say he is being fined for being on the wrong side of the road... {100 Euros Plus costs 28.50 Euros}.which he does not deny but with over a ton of metal hurtling at you over 120 MPH and a barrier to your right I guess most would actually take evasive action.

Anyway no one will tell us how to proceed with disputing the fine and no one will reply to his emails asking if this will be taken from the 1000 Euros he has given them as a bond...or does he have to pay more money and hope he gets his 1000 Euros back at some stage ..................in fact they are completely useless and a perfect example of why being in Europe is a joke.

Please can any one advice me how to proceed.

Regards Andy T

If you can email me the German documents I can get my (Austrian) OH to translate them for you ?? I'm unsure who to tag for advice ... maybe [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] [MENTION=2]Celestine[/MENTION] [MENTION=332]EXC[/MENTION] [MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION] or [MENTION=7765]Joanna C[/MENTION] will have an idea :noidea: xx

[des8]

Re: German Court fine

All I know is that German systems are unlike any other country
You might find this link useful, if you haven't already found it.
http://fevr.org/wp-content/uploads/2...rd-GERMANY.pdf
section 5 might be useful if you intend to claim against the German driver for causing the accident.

[ukracer]

Re: German Court fine

If you can email me the German documents I can get my (Austrian) OH to translate them for you ?? I'm unsure who to tag for advice ... maybe @Amethyst @Celestine @EXC @Diana M or @Joanna C will have an idea :noidea: xx

Thanks for that.

How do I get your email??

[Kati]

Re: German Court fine

Thanks for that.

How do I get your email??

It's in my signature

kati@legalbeagles.info

K xx

[Kati]

Re: German Court fine

OK ... these two (which your son got at the side of the road - after the accident) are his bail papers. They give the reason for the 1000 Euros cash payment at the roadside ... it was payment for his bail. If he had not paid this, they would have had no alternative than to jail him until the court case (as he was not a German citizen). It also meant that he didn't need to appear in court himself.

[Kati]

Re: German Court fine

These two set out the police report and fine etc... - according to this you have two weeks to pay or appeal (although according to my Austrian step-daughter if you appeal it will likely mean you end up with extra costs on top ... the German police will insist on a full investigation :sorry.

[Kati]

Re: German Court fine

This is a request for payment of 128 Euros 50 (charges relating to the accident)

[Kati]

Re: German Court fine

From my lovely translator

According to the payment request he drove on the wrong side of the street and caused an accident, he could have been charged with so much more...

.....................

Is there any chance your son had a dash-cam recording at the time of the accident [MENTION=62565]ukracer[/MENTION]?? Without video evidence, it seems likely that any appeal will fail :sorry: ... The German police have photos and a witness (the other driver?)

[Amethyst]

Re: German Court fine

Sounds like the 100 euro and 28.50 euro is the court costs ( 10% of fine plus 28.50 euros ) going by this,

Decisive for the amount to be fixed margin to prosecuting road traffic offenses is in Bußgeldkatalog fixed for each infraction fines. Should there be a minor traffic ticket, which is also fixed in Bußgeldkatalog caution money.

The procedure costs necessary for the implementation of a misdemeanor proceedings are the police also known.

The penalty notice itself costs 28,50 Euro uniform with expenses in most states.

The court costs are all based on the amount of the fine and be 10 percent of the amount, but at least 40,00 euros.

and the 1000 euros was the actual fine/bail to release - it was by consent rather than going to prison/court.

What's happening with the German driver suing your son ? Presumably you are defending that case?

[des8]

Re: German Court fine

Sounds like the 100 euro and 28.50 euro is the court costs ( 10% of fine plus 28.50 euros ) going by this,

and the 1000 euros was the actual fine/bail to release - it was by consent rather than going to prison/court.

What's happening with the German driver suing your son ? Presumably you are defending that case?

The German driver's claim should be being handled by the insurers under third party liability section of policy (which is mandatory in Germany)

[Kati]

Re: German Court fine

This is a cover letter from your sons 'legal council' in Germany (just saying that she's sending the docs) ... he should contact her asking if his bail money will be returned (there's nothing in the docs I've seen that says either way )

[ukracer]

Re: German Court fine

OK ... these two (which your son got at the side of the road - after the accident) are his bail papers. They give the reason for the 1000 Euros cash payment at the roadside ... it was payment for his bail. If he had not paid this, they would have had no alternative than to jail him until the court case (as he was not a German citizen). It also meant that he didn't need to appear in court himself.

Ok got that thanks. We thought it might be a scam as they insisted on CASH no card payments.

[ukracer]

Re: German Court fine

These two set out the police report and fine etc... - according to this you have two weeks to pay or appeal (although according to my Austrian step-daughter if you appeal it will likely mean you end up with extra costs on top ... the German police will insist on a full investigation :sorry.

This is where we have a problem. Not knowing exactly what is being said and not been given a copy of what is being alleged by the german driver PLUS the instructions of the Insurance company regarding not admitting liability, Essentially the crash was caused by the German driver speeding and eventually turning INTO my sons car who had taken evasive action to the only place available which was to the left...across the road. Initially when first seen and it was a split second reaction to save himself the German driver was on the wrong side of the road.

My son also has two witnesses who were in the car with him and all of them could not understand why the German driver actually hit them as my son was stationary on the verge by the time he could have passed them. Instead he swerved into them. Had my son of being going fast its likely they would all have been dead as the closing speed would have been much higher. My sons car was actually pushed backwards into a post which according to accident investigators I have spoken to show quite clearly who was speeding at the time.

What we are most concerned about is my son and his passengers felt the German driver had been drinking and yet the Police refused to breathalyze him. or my son.

I am in a very awkward situation as the insurance says we must not admit liability and my son does not want a fine for something he did not do. He accepts being on the wrong side of the road BUT that was purely to avoid a collision which would have been avoided had the german driver not chosen to hit them.

[ukracer]

Re: German Court fine

So the other driver is to be believed even though it was him who caused the crash? Is this normal German justice lol My son also has photographs plus two witnesses his passengers. No he had a dash cam in but not running due to missing card. Why would it fail without video evidence as the photos we have clearly show my car being pushed backwards into a post OFF the road.