copyright theft question

[barrymcdonald1966]

Hi

I am new to the forum and not quite sure where I should post this but here goes...

My housemates ex employer has downloaded and printed the content of my website and reproduced images without my permission (I am a photographer and run a photography business)

They are using this information in a court case to defend a claim of Constructive Dismissal and employment discrimination. They are basically trying to prove my house mate was working for me in breach of their contract (whcih they wasnt I used their image on my website without their consent as I hold the copyright to the image and content and dont need their consent)

Now my companies name reputation etc is going to be dragged through the courts in a Tribunal and they are going to present evidence they illegally acquired from my website. I sent them a cease and desist email which they ignored, I then sent a further email as a reminder which was also ignored. So I have filled out the N1 form to take them to court for copyright breach but am holding on to it until they have sent their "evidence pack" to use which will be sent to the tribunal, I feel this gives me a stronger case for copyright theft if my information has been included in their defence.

So my question is, can I stop the company from using my copyrighted material in the tribunal? I believe it should be inadmissable as evidence as it was stolen in breach of my copyright and website terms and conditions.
Also when claiming for copyright theft in my seperate court case with the N1 form, can I add on damage to reputation etc and claim additional compensation on top of the copyright breach

Also another question, on my housemates behalf, their EX employers have been caught doctoring and tampering with documents to work in their favour for the tribunal. We know this as a data protection request was sent to them and they sent the original documents, as well as 2 or 3 different "edited" versions!!!! Now I dont see how they can defend this as we have the original documents and the ones they have doctored! Are these also inadmissable as evidence and do we need to report them to the court in question for fraud?

I would appreciate any help

thanks

[Amethyst]

Re: copyright theft question

Hi, Welcome to the forum

Your housemate is taking his employer to a tribunal for constructive dismissal. He left his job as his employer accused him of working for you ( second job?) in breach of the terms of his employment ?

Has the employer downloaded the content from your website solely for the purpose of using it as evidence at the tribunal, in order to show your housemate was employed by you? ( because you posted a photograph of your housemate on your website?)

You have not given permission for this content to be used in the tribunal.

Is that right?

( It might help to have an idea in what capacity he would have been employed by you (had he been) and in what capacity he was employed by his ex-employer )


You want to check the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, s.45(1): Copyright is not infringed by anything done for the purposes of parliamentary or judicial proceedings.

[Amethyst]

Re: copyright theft question

Also another question, on my housemates behalf, their EX employers have been caught doctoring and tampering with documents to work in their favour for the tribunal. We know this as a data protection request was sent to them and they sent the original documents, as well as 2 or 3 different "edited" versions!!!! Now I dont see how they can defend this as we have the original documents and the ones they have doctored! Are these also inadmissable as evidence and do we need to report them to the court in question for fraud?

Not for fraud no, but you should raise the issue prior to the tribunal and provide witness statements and copies of the various edited documents. Not sure what stage the tribunal is at?

[barrymcdonald1966]

Re: copyright theft question

Hi, Welcome to the forum

Your housemate is taking his employer to a tribunal for constructive dismissal. He left his job as his employer accused him of working for you ( second job?) in breach of the terms of his employment ?

Has the employer downloaded the content from your website solely for the purpose of using it as evidence at the tribunal, in order to show your housemate was employed by you? ( because you posted a photograph of your housemate on your website?)

You have not given permission for this content to be used in the tribunal.

Is that right?

( It might help to have an idea in what capacity he would have been employed by you (had he been) and in what capacity he was employed by his ex-employer )


You want to check the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, s.45(1): Copyright is not infringed by anything done for the purposes of parliamentary or judicial proceedings.

she left due to maternity discrimination, victimization and bullying.

The ex employer downloaded the content purely to try and make out the employee was in breach of contract by working for another company to defend the constructive dismissal claim. She did not work for my company I simply used her picture on my website to make my company more approachable to brides. I have not given permission for this content to be downloaded, reproduced or used in a tribunabl. I am the sole copyright holder and they have breached my copyright and T&cs of using my website. They have also faield to destroy the downloaded content as I have requested.

so yes they downloaded it solely to try and make out this person worked for me while being employed by them.

- - - Updated - - -

Not for fraud no, but you should raise the issue prior to the tribunal and provide witness statements and copies of the various edited documents. Not sure what stage the tribunal is at?

The tribunal date is set and we are at the stage of exchanging evidence. Unfortunately the ex employer are the ones in charge of collating the evidence and sending the pack to the court. As I have caught them tamporing with evidence I really dont trust them to send my version of the evidence to the court I instead expect they will remove my evidence and insert their own!

[Amethyst]

Re: copyright theft question

How does her picture appearing on your website help your housemates employer show that she worked for you ? Unless you have her listed as a 'team' member or staff or something on there?


nb: You want to check the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, s.45(1): Copyright is not infringed by anything done for the purposes of parliamentary or judicial proceedings.

[barrymcdonald1966]

Re: copyright theft question

How does her picture appearing on your website help your housemates employer show that she worked for you ? Unless you have her listed as a 'team' member or staff or something on there?


nb: You want to check the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, s.45(1): Copyright is not infringed by anything done for the purposes of parliamentary or judicial proceedings.

I listed her as Manager/Backup photographer just to make my company appear larger to prospective clients but also to put a female face to the business. I didnt request her permission to do this, although I do own the copyright to the photo I probably shouldnt have assumed her identity without asking first! this was literally only on the website for 3 days before being removed and the website was stilll under construction at the time and the company was yet to begin trading.

Either way her Ex Employees still had no legal right to reproduce my copyrighted material without my permission as far as I am aware

[barrymcdonald1966]

Re: copyright theft question

Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, s.45(1): Copyright is not infringed by anything done for the purposes of parliamentary or judicial proceedings


ok I should point out that this was originally downloaded and intended for use in a disciplinary to sack her prior to her resignation. It is only being used in Judical proceedings as a result of her constructive dismissal claims

so the content was downloaded and reproduced prior to them having any knowledge of any judicial proceedings

[Amethyst]

Re: copyright theft question

Ahh oops.

Is that the 'reason' they gave for sacking her? The truth should have come out at any disciplinary meeting - were you asked at all about whether she was employed by you?

Is she employed by you now?

[barrymcdonald1966]

Re: copyright theft question

Ahh oops.

Is that the 'reason' they gave for sacking her? The truth should have come out at any disciplinary meeting - were you asked at all about whether she was employed by you?

Is she employed by you now?

they didnt sack her she resigned on the grounds of constructive dismissal but they were trying to sack her as she was surplus to requirements having been on maternity leave for 12 months. Well that was one of the reasons they were basically coming with with 20 different reasons to get rid of her!
I havnt been asked directly if she was employed by me. She has never been employed by me and never will be employed by me. all that existed was my website with that content on .

I want to give them just enough rope to hang themselves, ie include my copyrighted material in their defence pack (which will strenghten my copyright case which I will bring shortly) but also to disallow the use of that evidence in the tribunal.

Is there a way for me to get this evidence struck out as I havnt authorised its use?

[Amethyst]

Re: copyright theft question

Don't you think it would look like she was trying to hide something if you started arguing that the evidence couldn't be used? I'm afraid unless they are publishing your work without permission they are quite entitled to take copies of your website to use as their evidence in the tribunal.

Presumably she has her case all sorted already - has she asked you for a Witness Statement stating that she was not employed by you and what had happened ( ie you using her picture to make your company appear larger / more attractive to your customer base etc )

[barrymcdonald1966]

Re: copyright theft question

Don't you think it would look like she was trying to hide something if you started arguing that the evidence couldn't be used? I'm afraid unless they are publishing your work without permission they are quite entitled to take copies of your website to use as their evidence in the tribunal.

Presumably she has her case all sorted already - has she asked you for a Witness Statement stating that she was not employed by you and what had happened ( ie you using her picture to make your company appear larger / more attractive to your customer base etc )

i spoke to a copyright lawyer who said my work cannot be reproduced without my consent so now im confused

[wales01man]

Re: copyright theft question

If its shown at a tribunal what do you think you can do about it seems a legal minefield here

[Amethyst]

Re: copyright theft question

Have they printed off a couple of pages from your website to use in the disciplinary matter and in the employment tribunal ? Or have they reproduced your work without permission or attribution and republished it? They are very different animals.

Personally I'd be more concerned about ensuring your errant postings stating your housemate worked with/for you doesn't damage her employment tribunal claim than worry about her ex-employer having a screenshot of your website.

[barrymcdonald1966]

Re: copyright theft question

Have they printed off a couple of pages from your website to use in the disciplinary matter and in the employment tribunal ? Or have they reproduced your work without permission or attribution and republished it? They are very different animals.

Personally I'd be more concerned about ensuring your errant postings stating your housemate worked with/for you doesn't damage her employment tribunal claim than worry about her ex-employer having a screenshot of your website.

they printed them off to use in a disciplinary matter (including the part that says they are not allowed to reproduce my work!)

I am worried it may damage her employment tribunal although my website terms and conditions make it very clear that there may be inaccuracies on my website.

"Neither we nor any third parties provide any warranty or guarantee as to the accuracy, timeliness, performance, completeness or suitability of the information and materials found or offered on this website for any particular purpose. You acknowledge that such information and materials may contain inaccuracies or errors and we expressly exclude liability for any such inaccuracies or errors to the fullest extent permitted by law. Your use of any information or materials on this website is entirely at your own risk, for which we shall not be liable. It shall be your own responsibility to ensure that any products, services or information available through this website meet your specific requirements. This website contains material which is owned by or licensed to us. This material includes, but is not limited to, the design, layout, look, appearance and graphics. Reproduction is prohibited other than in accordance with the copyright notice, which forms part of these terms and conditions."



so my work MAY NOT even for disclplinary procedures be reproduced. Its a very different kettle of fish in the photography business we do defend our work and content to the fullest extent the law allows

[Amethyst]

Re: copyright theft question

Is your housemate being represented at the tribunal or is she doing it herself ? I think it would be wise for you to be asked to submit a witness statement to the tribunal ( hearsay maybe if you can't attend ) but I think that would be more useful to her than trying to have the print outs removed from evidence.

I can't find any caselaw directly on the matter in this country - one case in Sweden which supports partially your view ( in that the court ruled they should have requested permission or asked court for an order before including it as evidence - and thus awarded damages to the copyright holder - but still allowed the evidence ) - but that is Sweden.