Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

I'm afraid it's all gone wrong - despite them telling me they wouldn't, BC have today sent my a photocopy of the original agreement, along with a statement from Welcome Finance showing the last payment made was the 18/08/2009 - 1 month before the statue barred limitation.

Is there any chance you could post up redacted copies? :typing:

Any suggestions? my current plan is to try to get hold of the mediation service to see if I can have another appointment - I'm surprised they sent it now! 2 days after we would have both received confirmation that mediation had failed

They rely on the original creditor to supply the documents as and when, they never have them when they issue the claims in the hope of obtaining default judgment.

I can't imagine why they told me I stopped paying it 2008 on the phone!

That sounds rather odd because they'd have had to pull up your account details. Would be interesting to look at that statement.

[P-Jay]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

Hi P jay
i did try to read back so maybe I missed it

exatly when was the agreement opened?

the payment that is conveniently 1month before the claim, do they give you any details. Is it a payment that followed a pattern or just one out of know where ?

Could it it be a phantom payment?

is the agreement they sent you in response to your coca request? If yes does it include the terms and conditions and everything else?

Just something to to maybe give you a fighting chance

Hi Bernie,

The agreement was opened in late 2007, it's not a phantom payment, the statement shows normal payments up to around May 2009 (when I was made redundant and hospitalised) then patchy history culminating in a final payment in August 2009 which matches the other agreements I have from that time period - back when this started I knew that the SB limitation would be very close - it was only the telephone call with Welcome which threw a spanner in the works - no loss though my actions would have been the same I suspect. Pile them with lots of info hoping they'd withdraw - which they haven't.

The reason why none of this this is recorded on my CRA is that Welcome actually wrote off the debt in 2012 and removed all record of it - sadly it seems that doesn't actually count for anything, I still owe the money.

My plan for Mediation (at 2pm today) is to reiterate that the information they have given me - a self-created statement doesn't tie in with the information I've had from Welcome directly, the default notice was unfairly lately filed and hope to create enough doubt that they'll accept a payment I can actually afford, which won't be much - certainly not as much as the original agreement - £160ish a month, I'll accept I have to agree to a Tomlin order.

I have to be careful not to get to wound up about it, I've just been sent home from Hospital with Pneumonia, brought on by stress I think.

Has anyone else been through Mediation, they're very good at saying what the format of the call will be, but not go good about what to expect in terms of a settlement?

[nemesis45]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

Hi Bernie,

The agreement was opened in late 2007, it's not a phantom payment, the statement shows normal payments up to around May 2009 (when I was made redundant and hospitalised) then patchy history culminating in a final payment in August 2009 which matches the other agreements I have from that time period - back when this started I knew that the SB limitation would be very close - it was only the telephone call with Welcome which threw a spanner in the works - no loss though my actions would have been the same I suspect. Pile them with lots of info hoping they'd withdraw - which they haven't.

The reason why none of this this is recorded on my CRA is that Welcome actually wrote off the debt in 2012 and removed all record of it - sadly it seems that doesn't actually count for anything, I still owe the money.

My plan for Mediation (at 2pm today) is to reiterate that the information they have given me - a self-created statement doesn't tie in with the information I've had from Welcome directly, the default notice was unfairly lately filed and hope to create enough doubt that they'll accept a payment I can actually afford, which won't be much - certainly not as much as the original agreement - £160ish a month, I'll accept I have to agree to a Tomlin order.

I have to be careful not to get to wound up about it, I've just been sent home from Hospital with Pneumonia, brought on by stress I think.

Has anyone else been through Mediation, they're very good at saying what the format of the call will be, but not go good about what to expect in terms of a settlement?

Good afternoon P- Jay,
The aim of the claimant during mediation will be to get you to agree to making payments without allowing you to put your points across.
Make yourself a bullet pointed list of everything that you want to say, leading on the unfairly late default date, that Welcome confirmed the debt was written off and removed the default entry.
Save me looking back have you had the agreement yet? Important if the answer is no the mediator may decline proceed
and return the claim to the court. Don't let them force you into agreeing to a payment if you believe that they don't have enough to succeed in court. Make notes as go through the process.
No one can predict what the outcome of a mediation will be! I've done a considerable number and results have been very varied, one claimant admitted in the first 5 minutes that their claim had no reasonable chance of success but played the " moral" card i.e. we can't enforce but you know you owe the money so sign the consent order and your conscience will be clear big problem if you sign a consent order the claim is only stayed and if the agreement fails the claimant can apply for summary judgement, another resulted in an order to pay £5 pcm. for 35 years+ the defendant was 65 at the time.

Just put all your points clearly and look for any points you can hit on when the mediator passes on the claimants comments.
If at any point you feel uncomfortable with the progress for any reason just tell the mediator you don't wish to continue!!

Good luck !!

nem

[P-Jay]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

Thanks Nem,

I've completed an Income and Expenditure record for my own records so I know what I can actually afford. I'll take the time to put together some bullet points and I'll make sure to take as much time as I need, I actually negotiate for a living so I'm confident I won't be bulldozed - especially given I won't actually be speaking to the claimant directly.

I personally don't think I have much of a chance of winning - they've provided me with a pretty legible copy of the agreement including T's and C's, a self-produced statement and the full default notice - my argument is that prior to them sending me the claim form they've not been in touch, not once, the statement it's proof per-se, just a written record of their position viz payments - but my goal is to argue down the amount as it contains lots of charges for telephone calls supposedly made by Welcome plus other fees - the total outstanding at point of default was below £2k, they want nearly £4k, but mostly to agree a repayment of no more than £50 a month as much more than that and it's likely a 'rainy day' will cause a missed payment and a judgement.

I'm not brave enough to risk court now given their evidence.

[nemesis45]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

Thanks Nem,

I've completed an Income and Expenditure record for my own records so I know what I can actually afford. I'll take the time to put together some bullet points and I'll make sure to take as much time as I need, I actually negotiate for a living so I'm confident I won't be bulldozed - especially given I won't actually be speaking to the claimant directly.

I personally don't think I have much of a chance of winning - they've provided me with a pretty legible copy of the agreement including T's and C's, a self-produced statement and the full default notice - my argument is that prior to them sending me the claim form they've not been in touch, not once, the statement it's proof per-se, just a written record of their position viz payments - but my goal is to argue down the amount as it contains lots of charges for telephone calls supposedly made by Welcome plus other fees - the total outstanding at point of default was below £2k, they want nearly £4k, but mostly to agree a repayment of no more than £50 a month as much more than that and it's likely a 'rainy day' will cause a missed payment and a judgement.

I'm not brave enough to risk court now given their evidence.

Ok looks like you are well organised, let them be the first to suggest a consent order and amount, then you tell them
what they will get if you agree to the order.

As said good luck!!

nem

[P-Jay]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

Will do.

[P-Jay]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

Well, it's all concluded - I didn't manage to get much off the principle amount, £500 or so - I have a feeling the Mediator had more information that he could give me in terms of what they'd settle for - but with a nudge and a wink said I'd might get a 50%-70% final settlement if I had the cash, but if I wanted a repayment I'd have to swallow the bulk of it including the telephone call fees and all that bullshit so that's what I did.

Ultimately they agreed to £50 a month for the 'rest of time' (or 6 and a bit years to be exact) totalling £3800 which, given it's 'interest free' I can live with. They agreed to the repayment immediately which, me being me, makes me think I might have gotten away with less, but you can't put a price on sleep and health (as any new parent will tell you) and I can make a couple of savings here and there so I won't feel the loss.

I like to say a great big thank you to everyone who helped alone the way, yes it's a shame we couldn't 'stick it' to Bryan Carter and Lowell, but in this case they seemed to have their ducks in order and whilst they've 'won' I don't think I've lost - we made them bloody work for it, and I've reached a settlement that I never would have got without your help and advice. It's more likely that I would have panicked and buried my head in the sand or called them up to agree to the first offer they made.

[Berniethebolt]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

Hi P-Jay

Well I suppose it's a case of C'est la vie but at least you have not got a CCJ which was so important to you.
If you are of a mind, you might want to email kati a copy of the agreement for the forums records because it is always good to have copies of the real thing to compare against when they cum up with some rubbishy recon.

Now you can get on with your life not having this hanging over your head. Uncertainty is such a stressful thing

[nemesis45]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

Well, it's all concluded - I didn't manage to get much off the principle amount, £500 or so - I have a feeling the Mediator had more information that he could give me in terms of what they'd settle for - but with a nudge and a wink said I'd might get a 50%-70% final settlement if I had the cash, but if I wanted a repayment I'd have to swallow the bulk of it including the telephone call fees and all that bullshit so that's what I did.

Ultimately they agreed to £50 a month for the 'rest of time' (or 6 and a bit years to be exact) totalling £3800 which, given it's 'interest free' I can live with. They agreed to the repayment immediately which, me being me, makes me think I might have gotten away with less, but you can't put a price on sleep and health (as any new parent will tell you) and I can make a couple of savings here and there so I won't feel the loss.

I like to say a great big thank you to everyone who helped alone the way, yes it's a shame we couldn't 'stick it' to Bryan Carter and Lowell, but in this case they seemed to have their ducks in order and whilst they've 'won' I don't think I've lost - we made them bloody work for it, and I've reached a settlement that I never would have got without your help and advice. It's more likely that I would have panicked and buried my head in the sand or called them up to agree to the first offer they made.

Well done P-Jay I'm sure you are right on the mediator although they cannot give legal advice or disclose information that has come to light during the mediation they have a " feeling" for what the parties are thinking.

Is this a Tomlin order agreement? If so check it over carefully before signing, what is the payment method, a standing order is by far the safest method as you are in control.

Good luck for the future.

nem

[P-Jay]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

Hi,

It doesn't have the word "Tomlin" on it anywhere, but the terms seem identical - basically I pay and the case is 'stayed' I stop paying and they can ask the court for a judgement.

This is the part that doesn't look like 'boiler plate'

"

1. The defendant agrees to pay to the claimant the sum of £3,800 (the settlement sum) in full and final

settlement of the claim to be paid

by instalment amounts of £50 per month
for a period of 76 months commencing on the 13 October 2015
with a final payment of £50 due on 13 January 2022.

NB: Payments to be made to the NatWest bank account of Bryan Carter, No: 96615893, Sort Code: 60 – 23 - 34, Quote Ref: LOW/13991331


2. The court will stay the case (i.e. the court will take no further steps in relation to the case) and the claim, defence and any counterclaim will be struck out without further order of the court (meaning that the case will no longer be treated as active) if the court has not heard from either party by 13 April 2022.


3. The parties will keep the information contained in this agreement confidential and not use it for any other purposes. Other than a final written agreement, any information – whether written in a document prepared for mediation or written or spoken during the mediation – can only be used for the purpose of mediation and cannot be referred to in any court action unless the parties agree. The parties agree that they will not call the mediator to give evidence in any court action.

4. In the event of any default by either party, the other party shall be entitled to apply to the court:
a. for judgment, without any further court hearing, for the unpaid balance of the settlement sum; or
b. for the claim to be restored for hearing for the full amount claimed.

5. This agreement is in full and final settlement of both parties' claims, including any claim for costs, court fees, expenses or interest"

I've got 2 weeks to make the payment, but I'll make the first one tomorrow and set up the standing order for the 1st of each month, the theory being that if something goes wrong with the bank or something I've got 2 weeks to remedy it.

So no CCJ, which is the main driver for me. I've a bit rubbish I have to pay them, but I've decided to consider it a very long term loan and given I borrowed the money in 2007 and won't pay it back until 2022 even with their fees the APR will be tiny.