Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

[P-Jay]

Sorry, that my first post here is one asking for help - I didn't know this forum existed until I read about it on MSE.

On Friday (17/07/2015) I had the dreaded County Court Business Centre Claim Form land on my doorstep. Claiming £4000ish from an unpaid loan taken with Welcome Finance about 2007 or maybe 2008. Neither the loan, nor any default notice are shown on my credit file. I also didn't receive at Notice of Action letter.

It hit me for 6, I have to admit that in my early adult days I was an complete idiot with my finances, depression and mild drug issues meant that I would bury my head in the sand and put my problems out of my mind - which came to a head in 2009 when I was hospitalised for 9 months.

Following the guidelines from this site I've today sent the Acknowledgement to the Court and completed a CCA letter for Lowell, and a CPR request to Bryn Carter Solicitors.

I've also spoken to NationalDebtLine - they were confident that the debt is now Statute Barred, as I'm confident that I haven't paid them post 2009, as their is no default shown on my Credit File it was probably filed more than 6 years ago, they are also pretty confident that if it isn't Statute Barred, they it's more than likely that they won't have the correct paperwork to prove it - this is backed up by the fact that Welcome actually closed their doors to new customers 5 years ago and have been winding down ever since.

I've still very worried though, I've spent 5 years cleaning up my history as best I can, and whilst I know I could have made and arrangement to do so back then, I was advised not to and to 'wait it out' for the 6 year drop off.

I would be very grateful if someone could help me with a few questions I have:

I've not signed the CCA or CPR as a signature could be used to prove acknowledgment of the debt - is this a good idea or bad?

In the Acknowledgment to the Court, I have ticked to say I "dispute the full amount" and in the defence section I have stated that as I had not received the Letter of Action, and have no record of the debt I have asked for more time to complete my defence as I believe it is Statute Barred. NationaldebtLine however told me not to entre a defence as yet - but I don' think there is an option to do so on the form - should I remove the mention of statute barred?

If they do have the correct paperwork and it's not statute barred, can I withdraw my defence - I've been advised that I would be liable for court fees if I lose - I don't have the £4k, I have about half of that and some friends have offered to lend me the rest so I can pay it within 21 days to avoid the CCJ - but I don't think I could find another £1000 or so for the court fees.

Thanks

[nemesis45]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

Hi welcome to LB

There is no problem signing either request these are Not and Admission of Liability.

Statute Barred in England and Wales = 6 clear years with no payments and/or unequivocal written acknowledgment of the debt.

For a loan the relevant 6 year period starts when the creditor can first demand payment immediately in full.

I have found it successful on a number of occasions where debtor are absolutely sure of the statute barred status of a debt to write to the claimants solicitor stating the alleged debt is not statute barred this goes along the line of:

For the Personal Attention of
Bryan Carter
Principal Bryan Carter LLP
address.

date:

Re: County Court Claim No.........................................

Dear Mr Carter,

I have received the claim No...................... you have raised on behalf of your client Lowell and have acknowledged service the claim and stated my intention to defend the claim in full.
Please note the content of this letter in not an admission of any liability to your client.

Having carefully reviewed my credit history I have concluded that the alleged debt that is the subject of this claim is Statute Barred under the provisions of the Limitations Act 1980.

The purpose of this letter is to suggest that Bryan Carter LLP refers this matter to its client suggesting that given the information provided above it withdraws/discontinues the claim in the interest of saving costs and court time.

However should your client decide to continue the claim it will be robustly defended.

Please confirm in writing that the claim will be/ has been withdrawn.

yours etc.


Use signed for post and check delivery date.

This may stop this in it's tracks but if not SB is a complete defence.

( Carter will have added costs to the claim already)

nem

[P-Jay]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

Thanks Nem,

I've fired that letter to them in addition to the CPR separately - fingers cross!

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

Sorry, that my first post here is one asking for help - I didn't know this forum existed until I read about it on MSE.

Good to hear we are being mentioned on MSE! :clap2:

On Friday (17/07/2015) I had the dreaded County Court Business Centre Claim Form land on my doorstep. Claiming £4000ish from an unpaid loan taken with Welcome Finance about 2007 or maybe 2008. Neither the loan, nor any default notice are shown on my credit file. I also didn't receive at Notice of Action letter.

If it was defaulted over six years ago, it would have dropped off completely. :thumb:

It hit me for 6, I have to admit that in my early adult days I was an complete idiot with my finances, depression and mild drug issues meant that I would bury my head in the sand and put my problems out of my mind - which came to a head in 2009 when I was hospitalised for 9 months.

Following the guidelines from this site I've today sent the Acknowledgement to the Court and completed a CCA letter for Lowell, and a CPR request to Bryn Carter Solicitors.

I've also spoken to NationalDebtLine - they were confident that the debt is now Statute Barred, as I'm confident that I haven't paid them post 2009, as their is no default shown on my Credit File it was probably filed more than 6 years ago,

I can only assume you didn't make any payments while you were hospitalised. Any idea WHEN in 2009 you stopped paying?

they are also pretty confident that if it isn't Statute Barred, they it's more than likely that they won't have the correct paperwork to prove it - this is backed up by the fact that Welcome actually closed their doors to new customers 5 years ago and have been winding down ever since.

I've still very worried though, I've spent 5 years cleaning up my history as best I can, and whilst I know I could have made and arrangement to do so back then, I was advised not to and to 'wait it out' for the 6 year drop off.

I'd say that was a wise move. :clap2:

I would be very grateful if someone could help me with a few questions I have:

I've not signed the CCA or CPR as a signature could be used to prove acknowledgment of the debt - is this a good idea or bad?

You may have read a bit about signatures on various websites, however, the arguments for not signing referred mostly to the idea (myth or reality I'm not quite sure :noidea that creditors could 'lift' signatures to paste them onto fabricated agreements. It did not refer to acknowledging the debt. Alternatives to signing could be signing over a signature strip or just signing digitally, i.e. typing your name using a different font.

The only issue I can see with not signing is that your requests could be returned arguing they weren't signed and you'll have to re-send the letter(s).

With regards to acknowledging the debt, that has become irrelevant at this point as the clock stops at the time a claim is issued. If the debt was SBd at that time, then nothing can 'un-bar' it, not even a payment.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

In the Acknowledgment to the Court, I have ticked to say I "dispute the full amount" and in the defence section I have stated that as I had not received the Letter of Action, and have no record of the debt I have asked for more time to complete my defence as I believe it is Statute Barred. NationaldebtLine however told me not to entre a defence as yet - but I don' think there is an option to do so on the form - should I remove the mention of statute barred?

They are right, you shouldn't be submitting a defence just yet, just state your intention to defend it in full. You should be able to acknowledge service of the claim online, using the claim number and password provided. Full instructions here: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...313#post499313

Once you acknowledge, you will have a maximum of 33 days to file your defence, which you can also do online. :typing:

If they do have the correct paperwork and it's not statute barred, can I withdraw my defence - I've been advised that I would be liable for court fees if I lose - I don't have the £4k,

Those are two rather big IFs, Welcome are not very likely to find the paperwork even if it's not SBd, which sounds like it may be. Bear in mind most of these claims are issued speculatively with the idea of obtaining default judgment, most money claims end in default judgment. Sad but true. When challenged to produce paperwork, Mr Carter often falls down when his clients are unable to obtain anything.

I have about half of that and some friends have offered to lend me the rest so I can pay it within 21 days to avoid the CCJ - but I don't think I could find another £1000 or so for the court fees.

Thanks

First of all it's one month not 21 days from date of judgment, but that's purely for reference.

*IF* it came to the point where it looks like you wouldn't have a valid defence, you could settle the claim via a Tomlin order which would have the effect of staying proceedings as long as you make the agreed repayments, thus avoiding a CCJ. However, this is a very last resort and we are a very long way from having to even look at it.

[nemesis45]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

Thanks Nem,

I've fired that letter to them in addition to the CPR separately - fingers cross!

Ok PJay keep us posted on developments.

nem

[P-Jay]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

Thanks all,

I've just come back from the Post Office after sending the 3 letters and the acknowledgement back - I've struggled to file anything online, the site keeps telling me the claim / password provided on the claim form is incorrect - a laughingly told myself it was because they've already withdrawn it ( but I doubt it) anyway - rather than wait an risk it, I've sent it by post (everything 1st class and recorded delivery).

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

Thanks all,

I've just come back from the Post Office after sending the 3 letters and the acknowledgement back

I hope you completed just the acknowledgment part and not yet the defence...

- I've struggled to file anything online, the site keeps telling me the claim / password provided on the claim form is incorrect - a laughingly told myself it was because they've already withdrawn it ( but I doubt it) anyway - rather than wait an risk it, I've sent it by post (everything 1st class and recorded delivery).

The MCOL system works most of the time but nothing works 100%. They have a helpdesk and a phone number you can ring. You can also email the court at this address: ccbcdefendants@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk providing the claim details (claim number, claimant - v - defendant names) on the subject line. It may be worth noting this for future reference, when it comes to filing your defence, so you don't need to rush off to the PO and spend money on special delivery, etc. to meet the deadline. :typing:

[P-Jay]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

At the moment I've just acknowledged it and asked for more time.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

At the moment I've just acknowledged it and asked for more time.

Did you return this form? http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.u...s/n009-eng.pdf

[P-Jay]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

Did you return this form? http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.u...s/n009-eng.pdf

Yes, thanks for checking that's the form I returned.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

Yes, thanks for checking that's the form I returned.

That's OK then. :thumb:

You've got 33 days from date on claim to file your defence. :grin:

[P-Jay]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

My diary has just told me to "review my case".

Just checked online and Bryan Carter, Lowell and the CCBS all got my letters on the 21st - no replies yet.

Should I expect anything from the Court, or will they just expect my defence before the deadline?

Is there anything else I could be doing now?

Thanks all.

[nemesis45]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

My diary has just told me to "review my case".

Just checked online and Bryan Carter, Lowell and the CCBS all got my letters on the 21st - no replies yet.

Should I expect anything from the Court, or will they just expect my defence before the deadline?

Is there anything else I could be doing now?

Thanks all.

Once your defence is filed you will be notified that it has been sent to the claimant who then has 28 days to respond.
12 + 2 days to respond to CCA request, if no response after that the debt is rendered unenforceable until the agreement is disclos
Nominal 7 days to respond to CPR31.14 but you can expect the solicitor to decline compliance as " the claim will most likely be assigned to the small claims track" this is just a " get out" as CPR31,14 applies until the claim is actually allocated to the track. This should be chased, but the CCA request need not be chased.

nem

[P-Jay]

Re: Lowell Portfolio v P-Jay

Thanks again Nem,

I think you might have already answered my next question, but I need to be sure - Postie was late today and I did get a letter from the Court, it says:

"I acknowledge receipt of your defence. A copy is being served on the claimant (or claimant's solicitor).
The Claimant may contact you direct to attempt to resolve any dispute. If the dispute cannot be resolved informally, the claimant will inform the court the he wishes to proceed. The court will then inform you of what will happen"

I'm a bit concern as I hadn't filed a defence as yet, only an intention to - is this normal or has something gone wrong?

The information I returned with the form was not more than a line or two asking for more time as I believe it was statue barred? I'm not sure I've offered any sort of defence yet?