Arrow Global v Scirrocco

**Kafka** · 30th October 2014, 12:54:PM

Re: Arrow Global v Scirrocco

You seem to have handled this well so far. They clearly don't have any of the documentation, which is par for the course. Regarding the CCA request, it doesn't matter whether Arrow are the original creditor, because the CCA itself requires any claimant to comply a CCA request for disclosure.

If your date of 4th is right then that's next Tuesday. I suggest that you allow until Monday just to see if they comply. If they still haven't then you need to write to the court (can email) telling them what has happened and copying any correspondence from them that confirms that they have placed a hold. Never trust banks or DCAs and by the filing date for the defence you must register with the court why you haven't filed, in case they try a sneaky one.

**scirrocco** · 30th October 2014, 13:38:PM

Re: Arrow Global v Scirrocco

Thanks Kafka for the swift reply much appreciated.

I will contact the Court as you suggest to tell then what has happened.

Do I keep the original blue defence form I'm presuming until they (if they ever do) send me documentation on which to base my defence.

With regard to the matter being on hold is this indefinite if no documents are fortcoming or is there a time limit and in due course would it be proper for me to contact the Court to ask for the matter to be struck out due to non compliance.

**Kafka** · 30th October 2014, 13:59:PM

Re: Arrow Global v Scirrocco

Keep all the paperwork because you can't file a defence until you know exactly what strength their claim has. The important thing is to log with the court why your defence has not been submitted yet.

What happens next depends on what they can come up with and what they do. They can still produce the documents later and proceed, but they would still have to give you 14 days to respond to that.

Sometimes they simply can't produce the required paperwork in which case they can discontinue the claim by writing to you, or simply leave it in case they can get it later, which is more common. If you have send all the requests and the follow-up paperwork then you can apply for strikeout, but sometimes that can rock the boat. I had a recent one with First Credit where they never came back to me and it still sits with the court awaiting their compliance.

**Amethyst** · 30th October 2014, 14:46:PM

Re: Arrow Global v Scirrocco

You need to contact the claimant's solicitors and ask them to agree a formal extension to the date for filing your defence under CPR 15.5 - this would be for a maximum of 28 days. Then, if they agree, you need to tell the court in writing (email is fine) that both parties have agreed to an extension under CPR 15.5 and put the date that extension ends. See details here -> http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...filing-defence

If they refuse, or fail to reply, then you must put in your defence. You can find a draft for a starting point --> http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...t-Court-Claims

You should also respond to Arrow telling them they are the creditor as envisaged by the Consumer Credit Act and refer them to section 189 thereof. And send them back your postal order.

Sorry Kafka.

**scirrocco** · 30th October 2014, 15:23:PM

Re: Arrow Global v Scirrocco

Thanks Amethyst and Kafka for all of your useful and helpful advice.

I will contact the claimant's solicitors and ask them for a formal extension and will send a letter to Arrow with the postal order as you suggest telling them that they are the creditor.

Thanks for the template link to the draft defence layout. If I have to file a defence must this be by post or can I email/fax or indeed take the paperwork to my local court for onward transmission

**Amethyst** · 30th October 2014, 15:28:PM

Re: Arrow Global v Scirrocco

For the Defence you can email or submit it in person, or by post, or through moneyclaim online if you don't go into an extension period.

When it comes to that stage do a draft and post it up here before sending anything.

**scirrocco** · 31st October 2014, 16:46:PM

Re: Arrow Global v Scirrocco

Hi just an update I telephoned the claimants solicitors, Drydendsfairfax and asked them what their letter actually meant and had they informed the court that the matter was on hold. I asked them whether they would agree to a 28 day extension under CPR 15.5 and after a short pause while they checked with the relevant section they said the letter would suffice. I asked them whether they had informed the Court that the matter was on hold but did not feel I got a satisfactory answer.

I telephone the Court and asked them whether they had been informed that the matter was on hold. They stated that if they had received a letter from Drydensfairfax it would be filed and they would not act further until instructed to by Drydensfairfax. I ascertained that if I did not submit my defence by the 04/11/2014 there was a risk that a default judgement could be obtained as it would appear that I had not responded.

As suggested by Amethyst I have composed a letter to Arrow Global to remind them that they are the Creditor as per CCA S.189 and my draft is below.

I would be grateful if someone would take a quick look and advise if it's ok to send.

I will also draft up my defence and post it for an overview prior to submission.

Arrow Global Limited
20-22 Bedford Row
LONDON
WC1R 4JS

Dear Sir/Madam

Re: Account Number xxxxxxx

Thank youfor your letter of the 24^th October 2014 acknowledging my request for documentation pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 under sections 77-79.

You have stated in your letter that “We do not accept that we are the originating creditor as envisaged by the above statute. However, we are willing to assist in obtaining that which has been requested. We will now process your request for documentation from the creditor and will revert in due course. We return the payment of £1.00”.

I am writing to point out that under the Consumer Credit Act s.189 the definition of a creditor is stated as follows:

“Creditor” means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit agreement, includes the prospective creditor;

It should also be noted that on a County Court Summons issued from the Northampton County Court Business Centre on the 2^nd November 2014 by Drydensfairfax Solicitors on behalf of yourselves listed as the Claimant it was stated in the particulars of claim that the debt was assigned to you by virtue of a sale agreement between Sainsbury’s Bank plc and the claimant. The CCA s.189 is quite clear that both rights and duties are assigned and consequently I do not believe you have a choice in the matter.

I therefore reiterate my formal request contained within my letter of the 21^stOctober 2014 that you supply a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement as is my entitlement under sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

I understand that I am entitled to receive a true and legible copy of the executed credit agreement related to any account you deem to be mine and also a copy of the current terms and conditions encapsulating any variation.

I therefore re-enclose a £1.00 postal order which represents the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I will also state that as I have asked for a true and legible copy of my ConsumerCredit Agreement under s78(1) of the CCA 1974 if you do not supply the agreement within 12 + 2 working days then you are in default of my request and s.78(6)a would then apply

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

**scirrocco** · 31st October 2014, 16:57:PM

Re: Arrow Global v Scirrocco

Sorry should of also asked with regard to the letter to Arrow do I offer them a further time scale to comply or after the original 12+2 days from my letter of the 21/10/2014 have they technically defaulted on my request.

**Amethyst** · 31st October 2014, 17:05:PM

Re: Arrow Global v Scirrocco

That sounds very good

I'd be happy to send that.

Originally posted by scirrocco View Post

Arrow Global Limited
20-22 Bedford Row
LONDON
WC1R 4JS

Dear Sir/Madam

Re: Account Number xxxxxxx

Thank you for your letter of the 24^th October 2014 acknowledging my requestfor documentation pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 under sections 77-79.

You have stated in your letter that “We do not accept that we are the originating creditor as envisaged by the above statute. However, we are willing to assist in obtaining that which has been requested. We will now process your request for documentation from the creditor and will revert in due course. We return the payment of £1.00”.

I am writing to point out that under the Consumer Credit Act s.189 the definition of a creditor is stated as follows:

“Creditor” means the person providing credit under aconsumer credit agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under theagreement have passed by assignment or operation of law, and in relation to aprospective consumer credit agreement, includes the prospective creditor;

It should also be noted that on a County Court Summons issued from the Northampton County Court Business Centre on the 2^nd November 2014 by Drydens Fairfax Solicitors listed as the Claimant it was stated in the particulars of claim that the debt was assigned to you by virtue of a sale agreement between Sainsbury’s Bank plc and the Claimant. The CCA s.189 is quite clear that both rights and duties are assigned and consequently I do not believe you have a choice in the matter.

I therefore reiterate my formal request contained within my letter of the 21^stOctober 2014 that you supply a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement as is my entitlement under sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

I understand that I am entitled to receive a true and legible copy of the executed credit agreement related to any account you deem to be mine and also a copy of the current terms and conditions encapsulating any variation.

I therefore re-enclose a £1.00 postal order which represents the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I will also state that as I have asked for a true and legible copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement under s78(1) of the CCA 1974 if you do not supply the agreement within 12 + 2 working days then you are in default of my request ands78(6)a would then apply;

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

**scirrocco** · 3rd November 2014, 14:59:PM

Re: Arrow Global v Scirrocco

Further update.

I issued the letter shown in post 8 by recorded delivery to Arrow Global and await their reply if any.

In the meantime I have drafted my defence which needs to be submitted by the 04/11/2014 and would appreciate someone having a quick look over it and any suggestions for amendments would be gratefully received. My only real query with what I have drafted is on point 3. should I be referring to the Claimant or the original Creditor. ie Arrow Global who have issued the summons or Sainsbury's Bank who they bought the debt off.

IN THE NORTHAMPTON COUNTY COURT (CCBC)

CASE NO: XXXXXX

BETWEEN:

ARROW GLOBAL LIMITED

CLAIMANT

-and-

SCIRROCCO

DEFENDANT

DEFENCE

1: I received the claim XXXXXX from the Northampton County Court (CCBC) on the 7^th October 2014.

2: This claim appears to be for a Loan agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

3: It is denied that the Defendant has previously entered into an agreement with Arrow Global Limited for the provision of credit.

4: However, the Claimants statement of case fails to provide adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards to the claim.

5. The particulars of claim fail to state when the agreement was entered into.

6. The Claimants statement of case states that by virtue of a sale agreement the account was assigned from Sainsbury’s Bank plc to Arrow Global Limited. The particulars of claim fail to neither state the date when the sale agreement was executed nor the date of assignment between Sainsbury’s Bank plc and Arrow Global Limited and furthermore the Defendant does not recall receiving notification of this assignment.

7. It is denied that Sainsbury’s Bank plc served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.

8: On the 21^st October 2014 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the Claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Drydensfairfax Solicitors. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Credit Agreement, Default Notice and the Notice of Assignment.

Drydensfairfax Solicitors responded by way of a letter dated on the 22^nd October 2014 stating that they had contacted their clients for further instruction and that the matter had been placed on hold. They further stated that they would place the case on hold for a period of 14 days from the date of their letter enclosing the relevant documentation to allow me to provide sufficient time to respond further.

I telephoned Drydensfairfax Solicitors on the 31^st October 2014 to clarify the position as outlined in their letter of the 22^nd October 2014 and offered the Claimant’s Solicitors an extension if required under Civil Procedure Rule 15.5 to allow them more time to comply with my request for documentation but they stated that the letter they had issued would suffice for the purposes of the Court. I have attached a copy of my original letter and response from the Claimant’s Solicitors for the consideration of the Court.

I telephone the Court office on the 31^st October 2014 to confirm that the matter had been placed on hold by the Claimant’s Solicitors and was informed that any such letter or instruction received by the Court would be placed on the case file pending further instruction from the Claimant’s Solicitors.

9. As of the date of this Defence I have not received any of the documents I requested from Drydensfairfax Solicitors.

10. On the 21^st October 2014 I sent a formal request for a copy of a true and legible copy of the executed consumer credit agreement and a copy of the current terms and conditions encapsulating any variation to Arrow Global Limited pursuant to sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.

The Claimants responded by way of a letter dated on the 24^th October 2014 to state that they did not consider themselves to be the originating Creditor as envisaged by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. They acknowledged my request for documentation stating that they would be willing to assist in obtaining documents from the original Creditor and they returned my £1 statutory.

I issued a letter to the Claimants on the 31^st October 2014 to remind them that under the Consumer Credit Act s.189 the definition of a creditor means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have been passed by assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit agreement, includes the prospective creditor. I further stated that I believe that CCA s.189 is quite clear that both rights and duties are assigned and therefore reiterated my request for a true and legible copy of the executed consumer credit agreement along with current terms and conditions encapsulating any variation and re-enclosed my statutory fee of £1.

I have attached a copy of my original letters and the response from the Claimant for the consideration of the Court.

11. As of the date of this Defence the Claimant has failed to comply with s 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of s 78 (6) a of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the Claimant cannot enforce the agreement while the default continues.

12. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed is proved unless the Defendant expressly admits the allegation. Therefore it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

13. At this stage without sight of the requested documentation I am unable to plead fully to the claim and consequently I humbly and respectfully request that the Court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.

14. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my Defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

Statement of Truth

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.

Signed …………………………………………

Dated............................................. ..... ..............

**scirrocco** · 3rd November 2014, 19:01:PM

Re: Arrow Global v Scirrocco

Hi all

Could someone have a quick look over my draft defence and just advise if possible on my point 3.

Thanks for your help as always

**scirrocco** · 3rd November 2014, 20:43:PM

Re: Arrow Global v Scirrocco

Hi all

Sorry to ask again but is there anyone who can have a quick look at my draft defence and my query on point 3. I'm just conscious that it has to be submitted by tomorrow.

**Kafka** · 3rd November 2014, 21:23:PM

Re: Arrow Global v Scirrocco

That looks OK to me, but if it was mine I would number all the sections for clarity rather than having several points under one. If you renumber always check that there are no errors in cross referencing.

Section 3 must be agreement with Sainsbury's because you have never entered any agreement with Arrow.

Section 10 - you are not asking for current T&Cs, but a copy of the ones that were relevant to the agreement at the time it was claimed to have been arranged.

**scirrocco** · 3rd November 2014, 22:48:PM

Re: Arrow Global v Scirrocco

Kafka

Thanks for your help much appreciated. I will amend as suggested and submit my defence.

Arrow Global v Scirrocco