council tax charging order would appreciate some help

[Crazy council]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

Hi

The advise i gave above was before i understood the other circumstances.... with them, its a different approach, As Amethyst says above.

just one point for future consideration for Amethyst

1. What stage is this at in relation to them being able to take action on his house

Charging order becomes a second char...................... there'd be nothing left for the council anyway

You can not trust councils not to act in these situations, its not about the money, its about accounting markers, some actions, like this, costs loads... debt companies, bailiffs agencies, they all have there eys on the money, so tend not to take, pointless actions.... Its not the same with councils, they will take pointless and costly action, not because they are being vengeful, simply becuase its better for account markers, regardless of the financial costs.

[skilganon]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

i will now try and explain CT for 11/12,

having been made redundant in aug 2010, i didnt get back into work until late march 2011 ( long story and irrelevent)

i received a council tax bill for 11/12 addressed to 'the occuppier" of my current address after living there for 12+ years ???, as soon as was possible ( having started a new job) i went in to see the council about this, they totally blamed the DWP ( as i have learned the council NEVER make mistakes) as they thought i had left the country !!

anyway i then received a correctly addressed CT bill, at this time having been out of work for 6 months prior i was in arrears with the mortgage and getting threats so i gave all i could to stop any repossession action being taken and missed a CT payment, then i received a bombshell, my new employer 5 days before my probation period ended called me to a meeting with the GM who slid a piece of paper across the desk which simply said " as from 9th june we are terminating your contract" strange as i never had a contract, anyway, so once again i was out of work having been shafted basically. i then get aletter from the council asking me for the whole of 11/12 CT so i go to the council offices to see what i can do as i am now on full JSA, they have not taken into consideration i am on JSA and once again the blame is put on the DWP, so i am asked to fill in a blue form with a full IE, so i fill it in and return with it by hand.

now i distinctly remember this: when i offered the blue form the lady i was speaking too stated that they had now received all the details from the DWP so the blue form was not needed and she tore it up in front of me and binned it.

not long after this my mort. co. started issuing court proceedings for repossession, they wrote to the council who invited me to a meeting to see if they could help, i was already receiving excellent help and advice from a lady at the CAB, but i went to a meeting with the council anyway who offered their services with legal advice, i politely turned them down as we had already begun preparations through the CAB.

then i got a new job to start 13th sept. this saved my home, had heard nothing re CT at this point since my last visit with the blue form. Now being an honest person, i went back in to see the council around 13th/14th/15th sept to inform them that i was starting a new job and that my CT bill would need updating again, they requested proof of my earnings which i duly got and went back with the information. i was then told a revised CT bill would be sent out with required payments ( i was still waiting for the revised bill with my JSA award on it)

i heard nothing from the council at all, normally i would have contacted them but i was going through my repo case at the time and this took a lot out of me, i managed to get it suspended so all seemed ok.
BUT: the court screwed up the judge ordered the first payment to be made on the 4th nov i think it was, but the court sent the order out with the 1st payment due on the 4th oct by mistake, so i had already missed the 1st installment, their solicitor then sent me a letter applying to the court to have me repossessed for missing the first payment, i had to get legal advice and wrote a letter to the court and they amended the order. ( phew)

then in early dec. we had bailiffs turn up for non payment of CT demanding the full year !!! no summons no LB? when i quizzed the council they would not speak to me save for telling me they had obtained an LB on 26th sept????, just a few days after my last visit to inform them of my new job and to give them my earnings !!!

i have not paid anything towards 11/12 as i refused to contract with the bailiffs.

there is more but thats how it all came about.

[Wombats]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

Hi,

A newcomer to the discussion. I was in a pretty similar position to you a few years ago, though for different reasons - I was unable to work through ill health, but my early retirement pension was too much to claim benefits but insufficient to live on.

Anyway, we had two charges against our property and bailiffs on our back for four LO's - 2 CTax and 2 for NDR's. We also had a shed load of DCA's chasing us for unsecured debt and life was really quite tough.

We were told of something which was the single best thing we ever did, BUT you need sufficient equity in your property to be able to do it. It's called Mortgage Rescue. The council can put you in touch with reputable places that do it (I suspect CAB would too). It MUST be reputable so you end up with security and renting a housing association house which happens to be your ex-house.

The way it worked for us was the mortgage rescue company bought our house for 85% of its market value. This was enough for us to clear the first two charges (Mortgage and one CO) and to negotiate the lifting of the 2nd CO subject to payment of around 50% of the balance.

This left us just enough money to pay the four LO's against us leaving us only with unsecured debts.

It depends totally on how much equity you have, how much you owe and whether you can find a reputable company to buy your property. For us, me especially, coming to terms with renting as opposed to owning was hard. However, I realise now we simply don't have the income to be able to afford to own a property as if anything went wrong we'd never be able to pay to repair it. As it is now, we have a low rent compared to private renting and if the boiler blew up tomorrow it would be replaced, To all intents and purposes it still feels like 'our' house and there's even a clause in the tenancy agreement that it can be passed down a generation, so our daughter has security if she wants to live here.

It's something you may not have thought of and may or may not be an option, but it's worth mentioning.

If you want to know anything else at all about that or my situation as it was, just ask, I'm totally open about it now.

[Crazy council]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

Obviously , concentrate everything on dealing with the mortgage arrears if you want to stay there...... The thing is with council systems in these circumstances, is no one looks at the paperwork before dessisions are made to proceed... When your in the hands of the bailiffs, the council count you as a sucsess, regardless of the outcome. Thats why they fight instead of changing things

[skilganon]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

Obviously , concentrate everything on dealing with the mortgage arrears if you want to stay there...... The thing is with council systems in these circumstances, is no one looks at the paperwork before dessisions are made to proceed... When your in the hands of the bailiffs, the council count you as a sucsess, regardless of the outcome. Thats why they fight instead of changing things

i could have paid off my mortgage arrears and had the enormous burden of a suspended repossession order lifted from our shoulders, but instead opted to pay as much as possible towards the council tax, but that hasnt done me any favours at all as the council have now decided to go for a charging order even though i have been paying as much as poss over the last few weeks?

the bailiffs have only been, as far as i am aware, chasing for 11/12, that is the year that the council sent out their initial bill " to the occupier" and we were on JSA from 9th june to 13th sept ( approx) they did not issue us with a summons, nor were we informed a liability order had been awarded, we were waiting for a revised bill after my last visit to the council in mid sept with my 'new job' earnings details, the only reason i didnt chase the council at that time is due to the mortgage repo. court case, and the courts screw up with the order, the next thing from the council was bailiffs turning up in early dec !!??, from that point on the council refused to speak or discuss anything as it was with their 'agents' naturally we tried to explain to the bailiffs that the money they were demanding was incorrect etc etc, but trying to reason with bailiffs is like trying to reason with a rottweiler after you have just pinched his favourite bone !!!!

the council were FULLY aware of my repo case as i went to a meeting at their offices to see if they could help in any way, and the mort. co. had written to the council telling them about the case.

[Wombats]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

Skilganon, I've contacted somebody else to have a look at this. There's no guarantee they'll be able to, but hopefully they may be well placed to give you some advice to help you move forward.

Do you mind me asking - other than the house and the CTax, do you have other debts?

[skilganon]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

Skilganon, I've contacted somebody else to have a look at this. There's no guarantee they'll be able to, but hopefully they may be well placed to give you some advice to help you move forward.

Do you mind me asking - other than the house and the CTax, do you have other debts?

hi wombats,

appreciate your help, thank you.

oh yes im afraid so i have a court case on fri for a charging order for a BIG debt, there is a thread in the forum, i have 2 others i am paying too.

[Wombats]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

Can I ask how much is owed in total and to how many creditors (feel free to pm me if OK with site admin if you don't want it on the site).

[FlamingParrot]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

i could have paid off my mortgage arrears and had the enormous burden of a suspended repossession order lifted from our shoulders, but instead opted to pay as much as possible towards the council tax, but that hasnt done me any favours at all as the council have now decided to go for a charging order even though i have been paying as much as poss over the last few weeks?

Although both mortgage arrears and council tax are priority debts, when funds are limited, even those have to be prioritised. Since mortgage arrears can result in the loss of your home, I'd say your mortgage should be Priority Number One. Repossession would have a two fold effect: 1) you wouldn't have a place to live and 2) you'd probably lose a lot of the equity in your home since repossessed properties are often auctioned off at low prices and all sorts of fees and charges are added on top of your outstanding mortgage.

On the other hand, you won't lose your home over council tax, even with a charging order, that merely has the effect of securing the debt on your property so it can be paid off from the proceeds of the sale if and when you sell it. The council can obtain a CO provided there's at least £1,000 outstanding under one or more liability orders. If both you and your wife are liable for CT (which you would be in must circumstances, but there are exceptions), this won't be a restriction purely against your interest in the property as the other charge, which is, I believe, for a sole debt. :ohwell:

It should be noted that, from October 1st 2012, no order for sale can be made unless the debtor defaults on the installment order, which is why it was important to make sure the installments were set at a level you could afford on your other thread.

Personally, I wouldn't consider the sale and buy back option unless you were really struggling with your mortgage, as opposed to other debts not directly related to your home. :thumb:

[skilganon]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

thanks FP,

i have already thought about the council using my wifes equity in the property, not much i can do about that im afraid.

cant help feeling bitter about the whole CT process though, certainly for 11/12 CT protocol was NOT followed and we have not been able to sort that one out since because the council refuse to because the bailiffs were called in.

12/13 and 13/14 are different, we have tried in vain to reason with the council, i have attended court on 3 occasions, my wife once, it was too much for her, and have yet to set eyes on a magistrate.

on the 9th may a 'court officer' no name ( the invisible JP ) considered an application and the 'awards' made to the applicant etc

the respondent, who is the respondent ? pay the applicants costs i am certainly not the respondent as i never had the opportunity to 'respond' to anything ?

where and when do i get the opportunity to defend this claim/application there is no breakdown of what and why i 'owe' what i do ?

this cannot be lawful ? who is this 'court officer' what powers do they have in the 'county court'

it states on the order awards made by xxxx magistrates court on sept 11, june 13, i have requested from the court if a LB was issued against my property/name on those dates, guess what they cant help me, they dont know ?? all records are held at a magistrates court 25 miles away because my home town doesnt have a mags. court ???? so i rang the court holding the 'records' guess what they dont know either??? both phone calls ended with

" you will have to ring the council" !!!!!

if there is no record of these LB's how did the 'court officer' make his decision, based on what ? this whole thing is becoming more and more 'foul smelling' as i look deeper into it:mad2:

[Wombats]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

Personally, I wouldn't consider the sale and buy back option unless you were really struggling with your mortgage, as opposed to other debts not directly related to your home. :thumb:

I agree totally this should be among the last options to be considered. With us repossession proceedings had already started and we sold the house within one week to avoid eviction.

I asked about other debts as there may be more manageable ways to handle those. This would obviously free up money for other issues.

[skilganon]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

thank you wombat,

always willing to listen to all advice and new ideas,

there are money issues, but unfortunately the money issues we have is simply that we dont earn enough, i have looked and applied all over, the main problem i have is that i am ideal for many jobs but i just live in the wrong place get that all the time i have offered to re locate but that is seen as too big an issue, unfortunately where we live there are very few jobs about, most are temporary, nearly all through agency work which is very hit and miss, the job i have is secure so i am reluctant to make a move locally, keep applying for others in other areas but so far not much luck.

we need to earn more it is that simple, but unfortunately my wife is ill at the moment a lot of it brought on by circumstances as per my post/threads, sadly it is happening nationwide to 1,000's of people.

[skilganon]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

Hi all,

there has been further developments on this, i thought long and hard about what to do as it would seem there is nothing you can do when it comes down to councils and council tax.

the hearing date for this was 1st august, i decided to file a witness statement into the hearing bringing to the courts attention the way the council had obtained a liability order for 11/12 by NOT following protocol, etc etc wont bore you with any details but also pointed out that i had attended court on 3 subsequent occasions, never been before magistrates and been further summoned falsely etc etc. filed the WS into court and took a bundle of docs with me to the hearing.

i was late filing my WS to be honest and it was pretty powerful and with strong content ( not sure if i did right or not ? )

turned up on the 1st aug, no council, no solicitor acting for council, just a duty solicitor representing them on the day. The judge asked me if i intended to challenge this charging order ?

i replied yes, as per my WS, surprisingly ( not ) my WS had not even made the file.

anyway the judge asked me on what grounds, so i briefly explained especially with year 11/12, and the judge to be honest was fair and although he didnt comment, it was obvious that he thought i had a good case.

so : he explained to me that if i were to get any or all of the LB's set aside then the claim would collapse, BUT he then went on to say that i do actually still owe CT? to which i said yes, he then explained that the council could then get further LB's through the mags courts and then enforce these new LB's probably using bailiffs incurring more and high costs so in fairness he did not finalise the charging order and made an order giving me time to think about what actions i wished to take.
a) try and set aside the LB's
b) accept the final charging order and pay as and when i can

their duty solicitor then requested to see me after the hearing for 10 mins, i agreed to this.

i had 10 mins with the solicitor acting in her own capacity and not representing anyone, basically explaining to me what could happen if i challenge and what would happen if i accept the final charging order.

so i decided to attend a further hearing and accept the CO, and try and find a way to pay it but also look into getting 11/12 reduced to a correct amount.

i wont bore you with any more detail, but will make a further post as i have had the 2nd hearing which didnt go as i expected and i really now need some further advice

[skilganon]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

Hi all,

i attended the 2nd hearing to accept the final charging order, rather than try and get the liability orders set aside due mainly to the fact that i dont have the funds to make such an application and also based on the fact that i do still 'owe' CT.

during the hearing the judge accepted what i said and stated that he was going to accept the final charging order, checked his file and came up with the amount outstanding as being xxxx, which was the same amount as the original application made to the CC back in may !!

BUT since the county court ordered in favour of the council i have paid around 700 pounds towards this debt !!!!

this was not showing ? and the council only the day before had told their solicitor that i had not paid a penny towards this debt ??

i challenged this, but because my paperwork i filed into the original charging order hearing was not in the file ( still ) and i didnt have all of my receipts with me this time, the judge granted the order unmodified !!

adding another 230 odd pound to the debt

what has happened to my 700 pound ???

any help or advice would be MUCH appreciated as this has hit me for six

[Kati]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

dodgy dealings from the council??? Why am I not surprised :tinysmile_hmm_t2:.

could you get copies of all your receipts for payments and send them to the council, along with a letter asking why these haven't been accounted for?? - the fact that you have proof of these payments should count for something I think!!