council tax charging order would appreciate some help

[skilganon]

Hi all,

received a nice letter in the post today from a solicitor who is applying to the court for a charging order against our home for council tax.

i will attach a copy of the letter we received, notice the signee has not signed in her own name?

i want to take the council on over this as they have treated us unfairly, lied to us and refused to listen or help us in any way!

i just want to point out that we have NEVER refused to pay the council tax, nor have we tried to get out of paying it, we have simply been unable to make the necessary payments, and have been in constant contact with the council by visits to their office, phone, letter, and also visits to court when 'summoned'

any help or advice would be greatly appreciated, i have a lot of documents relating to this and need to piece them all together

please feel free to ask any questions and i will try to answer them all and provide any docs in relation

[Crazy council]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

Hi Skilganon -

This is NELC, BBC , NLC or ELD ( the locals councils ) am in NELC, but the council, round here use a special systems, were NLC deal with Billing, but the individual councils deal with further actions. Dont expect these solicitors to act reasonably,

I had to fight over my house because of these and its pressure from me thats stopped them using bankruptcy on small amounts. DO NOT TRUST THEM IN ANY WAY.

Ok, specifically, this is my research area currently.. Firstly, to be honest, if they get to court round here, the judge will just stamp it. If there is any way of avoiding this, the others on here specialise in things like this.

My first advice, Do everything to avoid them having a charging order, because they WILL GO FOR YOUR HOUSE, whatever they say ( if its over £ 1000 ) .
Secondly, start making payments even if its just £ 10 per week, direct into the councils account, with your reference number. They will try to stop you doing this. If you can afford to pay more, at least untill the hearing, do it. ( doing this will allow the judge to consider suspending the order )
Thirdly, record EVERYTHING, write down now how many times you have had contact with them.
Forthly... Are youy paying your current years CT or do you get a reduction now. If you are, demand all payments go towards the registered debt, not the current year.

Have they used baillifs against you before,,,, ask for full account charges of the baillifs. ?

One you have made the first 2 weeks payment, then do an FOI request through WDTK, i will help you with this if it gets to this stage. The FOI is to identify to the council that you understand the costs for them doing this...

[skilganon]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

Hi Skilganon -

This is NELC, BBC , NLC or ELD ( the locals councils ) am in NELC, but the council, round here use a special systems, were NLC deal with Billing, but the individual councils deal with further actions. Dont expect these solicitors to act reasonably,

I had to fight over my house because of these and its pressure from me thats stopped them using bankruptcy on small amounts. DO NOT TRUST THEM IN ANY WAY.

Ok, specifically, this is my research area currently.. Firstly, to be honest, if they get to court round here, the judge will just stamp it. If there is any way of avoiding this, the others on here specialise in things like this.

My first advice, Do everything to avoid them having a charging order, because they WILL GO FOR YOUR HOUSE, whatever they say ( if its over £ 1000 ) .
Secondly, start making payments even if its just £ 10 per week, direct into the councils account, with your reference number. They will try to stop you doing this. If you can afford to pay more, at least untill the hearing, do it. ( doing this will allow the judge to consider suspending the order )
Thirdly, record EVERYTHING, write down now how many times you have had contact with them.
Forthly... Are youy paying your current years CT or do you get a reduction now. If you are, demand all payments go towards the registered debt, not the current year.

Have they used baillifs against you before,,,, ask for full account charges of the baillifs. ?

One you have made the first 2 weeks payment, then do an FOI request through WDTK, i will help you with this if it gets to this stage. The FOI is to identify to the council that you understand the costs for them doing this...

Hi CC,

and thank you for your reply

i will try and answer each of your questions in turn.

you are correct in the council, it is one in your list but further south than you are.

i do not trust solicitors who act on these matters in ANY way, no offence to solicitors in general.

the judges /magistrates have stamped everything put before them, i have never been given the opportunity to offer a defence, explanation or even been given the opportunity to dispute ANYTHING EVER!!

luckily i came into a bit of money recently through a ppi success, and have paid this years up to date ( but wont be able to pay any more for this year) i have also paid some off my arrears for last year and the year before, all payments have been made in cash using agreements made by the council a while ago by scanning the bar code on the 'agreement' i have receipts attached. but my funds have all but run out. so the claim sum is false anyway.

they have used bailiffs for 2011/12, which is a real point of contention and i have not paid anything towards this CT, as i refused to conract with the bailiffs as the CT they were asking for was incorrect, as they were demanding a full year and i was on full JSA for part of that year, but the council refused to budge, they DID NOT follow protocol when the apparently obtained a liability order and i should be able to prove this. but what i have found is that the council lie, lie some more and then lie about lying.

we wont get a rebate of any sort, christ when i was on full JSA, they still didnt act and in 11/12 if you were on JSA you didnt have to pay CT at all!!

they even summoned me to appear in court when i had NOT breached their agreement, i went to court and wanted to see the magistrates, fat chance! when they realised their mistake they ushered me out of court as fast as they could, i had to clock out of work and lost money that day.

they dont give a sh*t mate.

unfortunately the courts just comply with their requests with no questions asked, this is all wrong!

but if they want my home then i will fight them as far as i can go right to the top or even the european court of HR if i have to.

would appreciate some help with a FOI request

[Crazy council]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

Hi, trust me i understand, i went all the way through this system, lost my house for 2 years, but fought back.....

they dont give a sh*t mate.

100% agreed, and they will treat you like dirt.

unfortunately the courts just comply with their requests with no questions asked, this is all wrong!

This exactly the point of my research action.

i do not trust solicitors who act on these matters in ANY way, no offence to solicitors in general.

They are professional, but all our local council pay that firm lots of money for other legal matters... as a general rule, if your fighting you local public service, get a solisitor from out of the district... I have fought and beat WC solicitors in 2013, but they were fair, they fought hard, but were professional..... have seen a lot worse

By the way, there main office, the address on that letter, 5 mins from my house..... if you ever need anything hand delivering, ( like a brick ) JOKE

I would still do what i said, its the charges they will add with and after this order that will get you, and they will try run the charges up, As you have probebly realised, they will just ignore you and expect the judge to rubber stamp it. So you need to prepare for that.

I would
1. Write to council, give them 7 days, give them the dates, you were on JSA, demand they check there system ( they have a way to check if you wsa on JSA, they just dont bother, ). So make sure the 2011-12 one is correctly charged. ( you may need this for the judge )
2. Also ask them for all copys of the agreements, even there notes from your CT systems ( the systems have the notes from when they have phoned or contacted you, you may need a SAR request for these but you can push them for seven days due to the action there are taking......... you will need these for court. make sure the give you the accounts and notes printout ( from there systems )t, not statements of accounts

3. If you can not make them withdraw the application, demand all monies you paid this year to go off the oldest debt, Do this in writing, make it short but clear, consider you will probably be showing this to the judge...... Liability orders and bailiffs are a lot easier to deal with then solicitors that have charging orders, and council W%4&^6544S that just have account numbers to hit

Then, have they offered any payment terms with the charging order, if not, like i say, just pay what you can each week directly to them, £ 5, £10, £ 20, just make it regular until the court date... They will try stop you doing this, just ignore them.... you will be judged on your actions by the judge, not them,

You probebly going to have to show the judge your income expenditure, explain your paying what you can afford, explain the problems with JSA in 2011-12, show them you made further payments this year when you had spare monies. Your best argument against the charging order if it gets to court is un-nessasery costs and actions. If they judge can see you are paying what you can, they are mmore likely to suspend the order whilst your making payments.

There are others on here with a LOT MORE KNOLEDGE in relation to charging orders, my skills lie in making council operate with common sence before they take such serious action as this.

Re the FOI request, in time, its better to be pushy to sort this out than start a full frontal attack, although you right and there wrong, theres lots of them and they have loads of our money to waste messing you about

[skilganon]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

thank you CC for your reply ,

i have been asked by the solicitor to acknowledge receipt of the documents, is it wise that i acknowledge ?

i would like to acknowledge but rebut the contents, but probably not wise.

i will attach a copy of the order issued by a " court officer" which gave them the power to issue this claim,

what amazes me is that the council can apply to the county court for an order, without my knowledge, and get a judgement without the defendant being given ANY opportunity to defend, reply or offer anything ??

is this truly how the law works in this country??

still reeling a bit from this as i only got it this morning, what would you suggest my first move should be ?

[Scigal]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

Luv, you've left your full name and address on the upload x

[skilganon]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

Luv, you've left your full name and address on the upload x

thank you for that, dont know what i was doing !!!

[Scigal]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

No probs mate.

Ya know, someone once emailed me telling me my full name and town was all on show!! We ended up having setting up a home and family together

[skilganon]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

No probs mate.

Ya know, someone once emailed me telling me my full name and town was all on show!! We ended up having setting up a home and family together

thats a great story with a happy ending maybe there is some good in everything

sadly yet to find any good in a council office

[Amethyst]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

No probs mate.

Ya know, someone once emailed me telling me my full name and town was all on show!! We ended up having setting up a home and family together

awww that's so lovely. I met my OH on here(more or less) lol

[Crazy council]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

oK

I need to ask one of the others on here who understand charging orders and what stage its at with this....... am not up on these enough to understand what stage that order you posted is at. Just from general reading, am guessing its at the stage were they are trying to charge it against your house, then take further action,

:noidea::noidea:But i dont understand, so can someone else explain please

1. What stage is this at in relation to them being able to take action on his house
2. How do the costs work out on these ( will he be automatically lumbered with other costs, any idea how much? )
3. Does the order at the stage its currently at, allow the council to refuse payments or offers.

I need to understand the above before i give you any recommendations.. So i can understand what part of the process to go for

[Amethyst]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

1. What stage is this at in relation to them being able to take action on his house

Charging order becomes a second charge over his home, so if he sells it in the future the debt is basically secured against it and they get their cut (though they'll be in a queue as we have a suspended repo already, and an interim CO for a loan debt which has hearing for finalising on Friday... they could apply for a sale order, but in his circs I don't think it would be granted as the other charges would take precedence and there'd be nothing left for the council anyway.
They already have an interim order and are applying to make it final on the house.

2. How do the costs work out on these ( will he be automatically lumbered with other costs, any idea how much? )

Probably the court costs - couple hundred I guess.

3. Does the order at the stage its currently at, allow the council to refuse payments or offers.

Yes he can make offers - but this CT debt is in dispute and he will be applying for CT benefit (won't you ??!?!?!?!) tho would only be a small amount each month - but basically has nothing to offer above normal CT payments as on low income.

[Amethyst]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

So we need to write to the court on similar terms as the other CO WS we've just done, but we also need to write to the council peeps about the dispute that led to the arrears, and try get enforcement held up. Also that you didn't receive the notification of the liability orders?

[skilganon]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

thanks CC,

i must admit, i dont understand this either? how can they apply to the county court for an order without the defendant knowing anything about it?

they have applied based on the liability orders they obtained ???

firstly for 11/12 i have never received a liability order nor a summons for that year, because if i had i would have attended court as they were stating i owed them more than i actually did !!

as for the 2nd LB, it is for 12/13 and 13/14 issued apparently on the same day!! i attended court that day to explain my situation and to appear before magistrates in the hope that i could offer an IE statement and come to affordable arrangements, based on the fact i was paying arrears on a suspended repossession order. I wrote to the council explaining this but they totally ignored it, after meeting the council in a side room 'at' court i was asked to leave ( not because i had argued with them or anything) purely because i had had my turn with the council as there were well over 150 people crammed into the court waiting room ALL having been summoned to appear at 1.30 pm on the same day !!!
when i arrived at court at 1.15pm there was a queue of people 200yds down the street waiting to be filed into court!! every one i spoke to had their summons with them and every one that i saw was for 1.30 !!

when i left court i thought, well at least i havent got a liability order against me, then 2/3 days later i get a letter from the council stating that a liability order was issued against me on that day WHEN ? WHO BY?

in truth i was summoned by the council to appear before the council 'at' court where i was NEVER going to get the chance to have my case or pleas heard by anyone who gave a sh*t.

[skilganon]

Re: council tax charging order would appreciate some help

So we need to write to the court on similar terms as the other CO WS we've just done, but we also need to write to the council peeps about the dispute that led to the arrears, and try get enforcement held up. Also that you didn't receive the notification of the liability orders?

hi amethyst,

this is all quite complicated i will try and get my head around it and explain as best i can what has happened, i have simply not been able to afford to pay the council tax as they wanted it paying, i have tried to reason with the council and did have one success for a short while.

i didnt receive anything for CT 11/12 letter before action, summons nor LB. ( will explain later)

12/13 i did receive summons and went to court, they played hard ball as usual, but my wife broke down and they panicked and allowed us until the end of the year mar 13 to pay it, but a month later my wife had a fall and broke her ankle and was off work, then on xmas eve she was made redundant as the place she worked closed down.

they summoned us again to appear in court for non payment of CT in the january, again i went to court but we were not in arrears as i had it in writing i had until mar 31st to pay it, i requested to appear before magistrates as i wanted to raise the 11/12 issue with them the council panicked and took me into another room where a smartly dressed man 'from the council' was sat he couldnt apologise enough and i was ushered quickly out of court. If i had known then what i know now i would have demanded to appear before magistrates. But i did explain that due to our circumstances that it was unlikely that i would be able to pay the CT for 12/13 by the 31st march anyway.

13/14 was again a struggle we were being asked to pay 12/13 and 13/14 they issued their customary summons, this time i sent them a letter explaining our situation and reminded them of the repo order and our struggle to keep a roof over our head, this was ignored so i attended court to face the magistrates and put my situation to them this summons was for 12/13 and 13/14 combined but they charged me twice one for each year so more misery.

see my previous post as to what happened at court on this day.

after this i went back to the council offices and managed to get an agreement written up, bearing in mind i couldnt afford the 98 per month they were asking for 12/13 the best they could do was to ask me for 140 per month, naturally i couldnt afford it.
BUT: they have not written to me at all re 12/13 or 13/14 even though i have not been able to keep up with payments. recently i came into some money and decided to put CT in front of clearing my repo. arrears ( i could have had the repo removed ) so started paying CT, then all of a sudden i get the court order.