CCBC Claim form received from Arrow / Restons Re: Egg loan

[panther12]

Re: CCBC Claim form received from Arrow / Restons Re: Egg loan

I'm on it M1.
From reading some of pestons replies to other members I think it's gloves off time.
No doubt Miss L Tipping will be keeping a close eye on events. I really think she needs to get out a bit more.:tinysmile_twink_t2:

[panther12]

Re: CCBC Claim form received from Arrow / Restons Re: Egg loan

Having seen examples of their standard template responses I sent this.

Further to the claim form issued in this case and your letter dated 13 February 2014 from Miss L Tipping, please serve amended Particulars of Claim and plead your client’s case in an appropriate manner.

Although providing a copy of a purported contract between myself and Egg, you have denied me inspection to documents requested under CPR 31.14 and necessary to enable me to establish your client’s legal standing in this case. You state that the requested documents are not “mentioned” in your Particulars of Claim and therefore CPR 31.14 does not apply.

I remind you that the Particulars of Claim issued, although vague and lacking the most basic of details, do make reference to an “assignment” to the claimant and a “Default Balance”. Now before you start spouting that my request is nothing more than a “fishing expedition” and that I should already know the basis of my defence without sight of the documents that I have requested, I inform you that at no point have I been served a Notice of Assignment, Default Notice or any other document to establish your client’s legal standing to lay this claim before the courts. As such, my request is a valid request.

I find it particularly interesting that you believe you can deny sight of the documents asked for and which are referred to in your Particulars of Claim. Please explain why this is. Surely you should have no problem providing such documents to show your client has legal standing to bring this claim before the courts. Your letter appears to be nothing more than an attempt to use your position and legal knowledge to deny a litigant in person sight of important information needed.

As you have denied my request made under CPR 31.14 for sight of the documents mentioned in your statement of case, from my own research I feel that I will be wasting my time by requesting them under CPR 18 and suspect that any request will be met with your standard template response (as is your reply to my CPR 31.14 request) that the list of documents/information requested is extensive and is not “reasonably necessary” or “proportionate”.

My request was concise and confined to matters which are reasonably necessary and proportionate to enable me to understand and prepare the case I have to meet.

Moving on to the claim form as issued, I bring to your attention serious flaws which need to be addressed before continuing with any claim. As you are obviously sticklers for CPR rules and court protocol, as evidenced in your denial of my reasonable request for information, I am sure you are fully conversant with the courts procedures and Practice Directions yet seemingly allowing claims to be issued with apparent disregard to the rules laid down by the courts.

As solicitors you will be aware that when a litigant commences legal proceedings and issues a claim form, the particulars of claim must be verified by a statement of truth. I refer you to CPR Practice Direction 22 paragraph 3.10.

3.10 A legal representative who signs a statement of truth must sign in his own name and not that of his firm or employer.

A solicitor may sign a statement of truth confirming that his client believes in the truth of the document in question. The solicitor should sign in his own name and not that of the firm.

The solicitor's signature should mean that he has the client's authority to sign, that he has explained to the client that he will be confirming the client's belief in the truth of the statements concerned, and that the consequences of a false statement have been explained.

I consider your failure to comply with the Statement of Truth to be a serious breach and certainly not de minimis, should you try to claim otherwise. This has major consequences: i.e., nobody would be accountable for non-truths and many courts are increasingly concerned at the casual attitude sometimes shown towards statements of truth.

I further refer you to CPR 22.2

Failure to verify a statement of case
22.2
(1) If a party fails to verify his statement of case by a statement of truth –
(a) the statement of case shall remain effective unless struck out; but
(b) the party may not rely on the statement of case as evidence of any of the matters set out in it.
(2) The court may strike out a statement of case which is not verified by a statement of truth.
(3) Any party may apply for an order under paragraph (2).

I appreciate that the claim is issued via the County Court Bulk Centre and that the procedure only allows the Claimant to insert brief details of the claim and does not allow for the attachment of any enclosures. However, aside from the failure to verify the statement of case, your claim is shockingly inadequate even allowing for the constraints of the Bulk Centre.

To be frank, for a firm of specialist solicitors whose bread and butter it is to issue such claims on a daily basis, I find your failings to adhere to basic court protocol inexcusable.

Now before you bang on about Practice Direction 16 and that it has no effect to claims issued via the Bulk Centre, I remind you that the rules on pleading still apply to claims issued out of the Bulk Centre and, furthermore, the Bulk Centre rules and guidelines clearly state that if you cannot properly particularise the claim in 1024 characters then you should not use the Bulk Centre to issue the claim.

If your client chooses to continue with formal litigation through the courts in favour of adopting the more sensible approach to try and reach mutual agreement between the parties, I invite you to re-plead your client’s case within 7 days, this time in the proper manner and pursuant to CPR 16, setting out concisely all facts upon which it seeks to rely. In addition, the statement of case to be verified by a statement of truth signed by a person with knowledge of the facts to allow the statement of case to stand as evidence.

I look forward to hearing from you within 7 days, failing which you will leave me no alternative but to make application to the courts to dismiss your claim, including costs. In order to avoid this, I invite your client to withdraw the claim to these proceedings. Should you wish to do this, please confirm it in writing to me within the next 7 days.

[panther12]

Re: CCBC Claim form received from Arrow / Restons Re: Egg loan

As we don't envisage any cooperation or the courtesy of a response from Rectums, I need to start looking at the next steps. Just want to confirm the date timeline is correct:

Claim issue date: 05/02/14 + 5 for service: 10/02/14
AoS dated: 08/02/14
Need to submit by 10/03/14?

Does the fact that we acknowledged before the date it was deemed served alter the timeline from 10/02/14 to 08/02/14?

If they don't reply by 25/02 to start chasing Rectums and offer them extension under cpr 15.5.

If still no joy or agreement to extend by 04/03/14 to start preparing to submit to the court before the deadline expires.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CCBC Claim form received from Arrow / Restons Re: Egg loan

As we don't envisage any cooperation or the courtesy of a response from Rectums, I need to start looking at the next steps. Just want to confirm the date timeline is correct:

Claim issue date: 05/02/14 + 5 for service: 10/02/14
AoS dated: 08/02/14
Need to submit by 10/03/14?

Yes, that's correct.

Does the fact that we acknowledged before the date it was deemed served alter the timeline from 10/02/14 to 08/02/14?

No, you still get a total of 28 days (+ 5 for service) to submit a defence.

If they don't reply by 25/02 to start chasing Rectums and offer them extension under cpr 15.5.

You don't offer them an extension, you get them to agree to an extension of up to 28 days and put it in writing (email should be fine) so you can notify the court of the agreement.

If still no joy or agreement to extend by 04/03/14 to start preparing to submit to the court before the deadline expires.

...or apply for an unless order. :thumb:

If you decide to apply for an unless order, you'll need to show what steps you have taken to get them to comply, so keep copies of every letter and/or email you send and make notes of any phone calls. You'll need to include all the history leading to your application. :typing:

[panther12]

Re: CCBC Claim form received from Arrow / Restons Re: Egg loan

Thanks FP, best to be certain of dates as I'm sure they'll have their calendar marked ready to hit the default ccj button.

Yes we will be asking that it's for them to agree the extension, after all it's for their own benefit allowing them to get their act together.

If I don't get any joy I'm undecided on the best course of action to take. To make an application which I'm sure they will contest, or submit a simple defence based on their simple PoC and highlight the steps taken and their non-compliance.

[mystery1]

Re: CCBC Claim form received from Arrow / Restons Re: Egg loan

You are not offering them an extension. The extension is for you to file a defence. You are being gracious in doing this which also looks good to a judge.

An unless order is, by far, the better option. It won't matter if they contest it if you prepare well. There is also the chance a judge with not bother with a hearing as we have seen here at least twice.

M1

[panther12]

Re: CCBC Claim form received from Arrow / Restons Re: Egg loan

I think you're right M1. Will get swatting up on this.
Rectums Modus operandi appears to be that if a defence is submitted, they may then send further docs and say that they have fulfilled all their obligations so withdraw the defence & pay up otherwise they apply for SJ at your home court with the threat of costs and Barrister fees added. They really are a bunch of shysters!

[panther12]

Re: CCBC Claim form received from Arrow / Restons Re: Egg loan

Nothing much to update at the moment except that when checking callcredit CRA, Arrow have updated the entry and the balance outstading has gone up to what now looks like it includes the amount for their court claim issue fee and solicitor's costs added to the balance. Concidering that they have not obtained any judgement in the case I think it's a bit presumptuous to be updating the CRA entry with these added figures before any judgement has been obtained.

[panther12]

Re: CCBC Claim form received from Arrow / Restons Re: Egg loan

Received a reply back from Miss Tipping. I think the last paragraph says it all really.

She basically says that they are surprised that I now allege not to have been served with a NoA & DN and I cannot sensibly make a positive assertion that the documents were not served on you. If you did not receive these 2 items then that is an entirely different allegation.

She says I have not previously advised of not having received the 2 documents and previous correspondence only asserted that the agreement failed to comply with the CCA.

Goes on to say the OC is a sophisticated financial institute and has procedures in place to ensure that a DN is issued to the customer prior to an account being terminated and therefore do not think you can sensibly allege that no DN was served on you.

Furthermore they do not think we can realistically challenge the assignment of the account to their client as their client would not have been able to obtain your personal details such as name, address, DOB, outstanding balance, account number etc if there had not been a valid assignment.

Given that I have not paid the photocopy charge that I undertook to pay in my cpr31 letter, no further docs will be provided to you. In any event we maintain that there is no obligation for us to provide them under cpr31.14.

With regards to the PoC not being verified by a properly signed statement of truth, (it was signed Restons Solicitors) Miss Tipping says that the proceedings were issued electronically via the ccbc and that it is impossible for a person to physically sign the claim form in their own name!

I think the mentality of that last comment beggars belief

[mystery1]

Re: CCBC Claim form received from Arrow / Restons Re: Egg loan

Why didn't you pay the £1 ?

M1

[panther12]

Re: CCBC Claim form received from Arrow / Restons Re: Egg loan

They only partly complied and expected any costs to be sorted out at the end. Suppose we could ask for their bank details to do a £1 transfer

[mystery1]

Re: CCBC Claim form received from Arrow / Restons Re: Egg loan

I'd give her a last chance to rectify the statement of claim and if not apply for a strike out on the basis the particulars of claim are defective. When cpr mentions a signature it does not mean that which matches your bank card. An electronic signature (i.e. typed) is suffice.

M1

[panther12]

Re: CCBC Claim form received from Arrow / Restons Re: Egg loan

Thanks M1.
Nothing from other side so I'm going to submit the n244 but as time is getting close to the deadline what is the situation if my application is in a backlog and the claimant sneak in a default ccj? Was wondering if I should also enter a defence just to stop any default while the application wings its way through the system.

[mystery1]

Re: CCBC Claim form received from Arrow / Restons Re: Egg loan

Your application should be ahead of their one in any queue but it is best to give yourself a few days. Once the court sees that you are participating in the proceedings you should be fine if you have reason not to enter a defence.

M1

[panther12]

Re: CCBC Claim form received from Arrow / Restons Re: Egg loan

Right-e-o, cheers. Was just a bit worried as deadline to respond to the claim is Monday.
I rang the court and they confirmed claimant can't get judgement until the application has been dealt with first. It's now submitted & fee paid.