cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQUEST

[FlamingParrot]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

As i thought about denying the claim, which i have not done..... i dont want to anyway,,,,,, i want to woop there bum

You should only deny the debt if you really have no idea what they're talking about. You obviously DO, so no, not a good idea. :nono:

No its not a good argument lol, they have also stated the do NOT need to follow CPR or Pre action, this is popycock, right??

I'm going to quote from PT2537 again:

If a claimant suggests that they do not need to provide documents at this stage but they will provide them at full disclosure stage, then it may be worth referring them to this Court of Appeal ruling here http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2008/59.html

In particular i do like para 24 of Rix LJ judgment:

The general ethos of the CPR is for a more cards on the table approach to litigation. If a party thinks it worthwhile to mention a document in his pleadings, witness statements or affidavits, I do not see why, subject as I say to the question of privilege, the court should put difficulties in the way of inspection. I look upon the mention of a document in pleadings etc as a form of disclosure. The document in question has not been disclosed by list, or at any rate not yet, but it has been disclosed by mention in what, for the purposes of litigation, is another important and formal category of documents. If so, then the party deploying that document by its mention should in principle be prepared to be required to permit its inspection, and the other party should be entitled to its inspection. What in such circumstances is the virtue of coyness?

So if the lender says we dont have to provide docs mentioned in our statement of case now, politley tell them that the Court of Appeal seems to think they do.

could i ask you please, do i have to, or, is it better to give them less than the 28 days, so they definatley dont come up with the paperwork in time???........... or do they decide how long to extend it

We seem to be getting a bit confused here. It is to YOUR advantage to get the full 28 days the CPR allows, not theirs. The 28 days are for YOU to submit YOUR defence, not for THEM to supply the paperwork. They have to supply the paperwork ahead of that time.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Needs to be 28 days extension - helps you if you need to make an application. 7 days for documents (so can give them a 7 days deadline) then 21 days for you to do your defence.

And yes they do have to comply with preaction protocols - all claimants do regardless of amount or if it's bulk court. CPR's more argument on as it's a small claim.

The argument is that Part 31 doesn't apply to small claims.

The counter-argument is that, until the defence has been submitted, the claim will not have yet been allocated so it cannot be argued it doesn't apply because it's small claims.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

does the fact i sent many requests to lloyds and have letters from lloyds saying they have sent newer T&C's 4 years ago that did not comply with the CCA request, and instead of sending the actuall CCA they sent the application form, pics as in my first few posts in this thread......... does that help in, say me not now giving the solicitors more time(full 28days?) as the orginal creditors have had 4yrs to provide them and never have, no contact from lloyds or QC letter of asignment etc in this time and the sols have made a vexatious claim as they have started proceedings withOUT prior contact, time to discuss the alleged debt or even be in possession of the docs to open the court claim, just the 'word' of a client they themselves admit are usless??? may be a mute point but felt worth asking.

As they have issued proceedings, they have to supply the documents under the CPR. That included both the agreement and the notice of assignment. I think the attached judgment may be of assistance to you, as it touches on similar issues to the ones you mention. :thumb:

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Just an update, reading and trying to get my head round your last few posts FP thanks for posting them.

I rang them and asked if they had anything from CQ yet, they said no, and that they will write to say they wont chase it until they have the documents they will give the 28 days, if nothing turns up they are happy to extended it further (kind of them), she also said they have made it clear to their client they wont be taking it forward without the relevant documents.

sarnie

[Gorang]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

(nb: sorry Gorang -I think embarassed defences have been discussed elsewhere last couple days)

No need to apologise Amethyst, I was wrong via the embarrassed defence, as I found out last night, and for that I apologise to all concerned

Sarnie, please to stick to FP and Ame's advice as your in good hands

and I will continue to watch and learn some more

Again apologise for giving advice that was not right

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Im just reading through everything everyone has so kindly posted, so if its ok can i post a few more questions, if i have any, regarding all that has been posted today...

Do i have to write to the sols under CPR 15.5 for the 28days extension or is my phone call today ok

"Do not allow the time for filing your defence to expire. If you have asked for an extension using CPR Rule 15.5 (think thats meant to be 13.5?) and that is about to expire, then an application to extend the time frame is important otherwise you will face default judgement and may be faced with a bar on your ability to file a defence." .......this was from FP's earlier post, quoting pt2537.

thanks
Sarnie

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Gorang, no apology required, although gratefully excepted and also restoring some faith in mankind, not many would reply to put what you have!

No need to apologise Amethyst, I was wrong via the embarrassed defence, as I found out last night, and for that I apologise to all concerned

Sarnie, please to stick to FP and Ame's advice as your in good hands

and I will continue to watch and learn some more

Again apologise for giving advice that was not right

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

FP earlier you posted this below, thanks,
I was distracted slightly while i first read this earlier today and i thought it was advising me against pressing them for time at this stage, so when i rang them i let her speak and how they 'tell' you whats going to happen,, i didnt ask they supply the docs by a certain date, say in 7days.... so now ive re-read all that has been posted earlier the quote below is saying i should?, and if so, as i didnt say on the phone today, should i put a proper CPR31.15 in and give them, say 7days, and send it asap?

originally Posted by sarnie2109

thank you, should i get them to state they dont have any paperwork? and may i ask why i am asking fr an extension for filling my defence??........ i thought i would ask for it to be struck out??? i need to read up a bit more on the differences in which option does what
Because they have not responded to your request under CPR 31.14, you are allowed to request an extension under CPR 31.15. See below from post above:

There is the option for the Defendant where the Claimant is in-breach of the provisions of CPR rule 31.14 & 31.15 to make an application on an N244 form. Now then, you should exhaust all options before launching an application, it should be last resort not first. Let the creditor have the 7 days he is allowed. On day 8 write to him pointing out the time is slipping and that you require disclosure, ask for an estimate of when the documents will be provided. Don't be frightened to give the creditor a time frame. Say "I require the agreement by 4pm on xxxxxx 2012 or i will have no choice but to make an application to the Court" it will assist if the application is necessary.



Sorry it may sound a daft question, but where a few of the replys posted have quoted previous posts in the reply, i got a bit 'kuffuzled' reading through it......... starting to sink in now :tinysmile_twink_t2:

[Gorang]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

"Do not allow the time for filing your defence to expire. If you have asked for an extension using CPR Rule 15.5 (think thats meant to be 13.5?) and that is about to expire, then an application to extend the time frame is important otherwise you will face default judgement and may be faced with a bar on your ability to file a defence." .......this was from FP's earlier post, quoting pt2537.

It looks like to me that the CPR Rule 15.5 is correct

Agreement extending the period for filing a defence

15.5

(1) The defendant and the claimant may agree that the period for filing a defence specified in rule 15.4 shall be extended by up to 28 days.

(2) Where the defendant and the claimant agree to extend the period for filing a defence, the defendant must notify the court in writing.

I am assuming (so please wait for others to confirm or correct me) that you need to make some sort of application (or a letter) to the court stating that you and the claimant both agree to a time extension for you to compile your defence once you receive the relevant documentation from the claimant

Again I am assuming that you will need to back up the application or letter with written proof from the claimant of what you have said (just to prove to the court that both of you have agreed to the time extension) in form of either an email or letter from the claimant

Gorang, no apology required, although gratefully excepted and also restoring some faith in mankind, not many would reply to put what you have!

Thank you very much for your kind words, I am of the opinion that if I do or say something that is wrong, I will be the 1st one to hold my hands up and apologise

[Amethyst]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Just a letter rather than an application. Just confirm both parties have agreed to an extension, no evidence needed but attach a copy of the email/letter from the claimants just save any hassle. Remember to put the claim number on the letter and any attachments.

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

FP,

earlier you quoted PT2537 and this was at the bottom of the pasted quote,

Do not allow the time for filing your defence to expire. If you have asked for an extension using CPR Rule 15.5 and that is about to expire, then an application to extend the time frame is important otherwise you will face default judgment and may be faced with a bar on your ability to file a defence.

I havent asked for an extension, they woman offered it on the phone......... and i havent made a CPR15.5 for the 28 days.
so im a bit coffused by this, should i, or in some other cases would the 15.5 have been sent already, as i have until the 28th nov to file defence. OR is it saying i should be doing this now? im assuming now??

[Amethyst]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Yes, write to the court now (send it tomorrow to arrive Monday preferably) xx


The bit in PT's quote means if you have already done this bit and they are still dragging their heels, don't just let it run out, apply to extend the extension, so don't worry on that.

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

thank Amethyst, gotcha re the quote, i thought it was more likely 'out of context'

so do i send just a letter to the court saying we have agreed for more time... or do i send the court the cpr 15.5.

[Amethyst]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Dear Court Manager

Claim Ref XXXXXXX
xxxxxxxxxxxxx v xxxxxxxxxxxx

As defendant in this case I would like to inform the court that both parties in this case have agreed to a time extension of XXXXXXXX / until xxxxxxxxxxxx for the filing of a defence as allowed under the Civil Procedure Rules 15.5(2). I have attached confirmation of the claimant's agreement for the file.

Kind regards

sarnie2109




I'm sure there's probably more complicated templates but that's all you need IMO xx

[Gorang]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Dear Court Manager

Claim Ref XXXXXXX
xxxxxxxxxxxxx v xxxxxxxxxxxx

As defendant in this case I would like to inform the court that both parties in this case have agreed to a time extension of XXXXXXXX / until xxxxxxxxxxxx for the filing of a defence as allowed under the Civil Procedure Rules 15.5(2). I have attached confirmation of the claimant's agreement for the file.

Kind regards

sarnie2109




I'm sure there's probably more complicated templates but that's all you need IMO xx

Amethyst
Just a thought here, is it worth adding a reason to the letter so the court is aware why the extension is required, just so it is documented if the case is actually heard in court???
Or will that do no good and just look as telling tales to the judge, before it gets to court??