cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQUEST

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

double post

[Amethyst]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

You need to ask Drydens to confirm an extension for filing defence with you in writing on the basis of waiting for the CPR documents etc and send a copy of that to the court.



(nb: sorry Gorang -I think embarassed defences have been discussed elsewhere last couple days)

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

thank you, should i get them to state they dont have any paperwork? and may i ask why i am asking fr an extension for filling my defence??........ i thought i would ask for it to be struck out??? i need to read up a bit more on the differences in which option does what

Thanks again

[FlamingParrot]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

You need to ask Drydens to confirm an extension for filing defence with you in writing on the basis of waiting for the CPR documents etc and send a copy of that to the court.

(nb: sorry Gorang -I think embarassed defences have been discussed elsewhere last couple days)

They have indeed, only last night, re-quoting below for reference. The quote also says the defendant has the option to make an application using an N244, but that's a last resort, after all the other avenues have been exhausted. The first avenue would be to apply for an extension under CPR 31.15.

I'm going to quote below what PT2537 has written elsewhere on the subject of embarrassed defences and holding defences:

Ok so you have decided to defend the claim. Firstly,lets look at holding defences as they are some times called. The Whitebook has a very helpful piece on holding Defences. It states

15.5.3
Holding defence

A defendant cannot legitimately obtain more time for preparing their defence by filing the so-called “holding defence” such as “I deny this debt: full defence to follow”. Such a defence does not comply with Pt 16 (contents of defence). A defence which consists of a bare denial may be struck out under r.3.4 (see Practice Direction supplementing r.3.4 , para.1.6, see above para.3PD.1). Indeed on the filing of such a defence a court officer may refer it to a judge and the court may strike it out on its own initiative (see rr.3.2 and 3.3 ).

So if you file a holding defence instead of pleading your defence properly then you will be putting yourself at risk of an application from the Claimant to strike out your Defence or you may find the Court makes an order of its own motion and strikes you out.

It is important that if you can prepare a defence then you do so. It is also equally important in my view that you use the rules to secure the information that is necessary for you to be able to prepare a defence to the Claim.

Now just to qualify a point, if the claim is for money relating to for example a debt that you never had ie they got the wrong person, then you would put forward a simple bare denial as the debt isnt yours, however, if in 1993 you took out an MBNA card and you know it was assigned to 3 different companys over the time and now the Claimant is suing you for that debt, it is foolish in my view to say i dont know about this debt as you would be lying, if you want to however challenge the assignment say then you can say you admit entering into an agreement with MBNA or Barclays but you deny that it has been lawfully assigned to the current claimant, that is of course if you do not have proof of the assignment to the current claimant and genuinely havent been served with the correct papers etc. The single most important thing NOT TO DO is LIE, you must be honest and truthful.

The biggest problem that litigants in person seem to face is that they request a copy of say the agreement mentioned in the Claim form, and the Default notice and the Claimant fails to provide copies within the 7 days which rule 31.15 provides. In these circumstances it seems normal for people to file a "embarrassed Defence" which basically argues the Defendant is embarrassed at pleading because no documents have been provided and for leave to amend the defence later.

There is the option for the Defendant where the Claimant is in-breach of the provisions of CPR rule 31.14 & 31.15 to make an application on an N244 form. Now then, you should exhaust all options before launching an application, it should be last resort not first. Let the creditor have the 7 days he is allowed. On day 8 write to him pointing out the time is slipping and that you require disclosure, ask for an estimate of when the documents will be provided. Dont be frightened to give the creditor a time frame. Say "I require the agreement by 4pm on xxxxxx 2012 or i will have no choice but to make an application to the Court" it will assist if the application is necessary.

Do not allow the time for filing your defence to expire. If you have asked for an extension using CPR Rule 15.5 and that is about to expire, then an application to extend the time frame is important otherwise you will face default judgment and may be faced with a bar on your ability to file a defence.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

thank you, should i get them to state they dont have any paperwork? and may i ask why i am asking fr an extension for filling my defence??........ i thought i would ask for it to be struck out??? i need to read up a bit more on the differences in which option does what

Because they have not responded to your request under CPR 31.14, you are allowed to request an extension under CPR 31.15. See below from post above:

There is the option for the Defendant where the Claimant is in-breach of the provisions of CPR rule 31.14 & 31.15 to make an application on an N244 form. Now then, you should exhaust all options before launching an application, it should be last resort not first. Let the creditor have the 7 days he is allowed. On day 8 write to him pointing out the time is slipping and that you require disclosure, ask for an estimate of when the documents will be provided. Don't be frightened to give the creditor a time frame. Say "I require the agreement by 4pm on xxxxxx 2012 or i will have no choice but to make an application to the Court" it will assist if the application is necessary.

[Amethyst]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

If they do not submit the documents in this extension period then you have a defence against the claim a nd it can't be bought again in the future.

If you just get them struck out they could apply for reinstatement later (when/if they find documents). Plus you'd have to show they have no reasonable grounds for the claim and the court does have discretion in these kinds of cases whether to allow enforcement.

2) The court may strike out(GL) a statement of case if it appears to the court –

(a) that the statement of case discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing or defending the claim;

(b) that the statement of case is an abuse of the court’s process or is otherwise likely to obstruct the just disposal of the proceedings; or

(c) that there has been a failure to comply with a rule, practice direction or court order.

(3) When the court strikes out a statement of case it may make any consequential order it considers appropriate.

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

thanks FP... right so it seems from the above that the embarrassed defense is not the way for me to go? as... i have/had no idea of who/what the debt may have been...... as i recognised the amount, but not the new account number listed in the PoC (they used QC ref number instead of the lloyds account number but have genuinely had NO correspondence in this matter since 2010 in final response letter from lloyds, nothing since from either party), i also have all my letters in regards to this alleged debt so saying i know nothing now is daft and could be said as lies?

So i take it from reading the above i am best off speaking to the sol's as its day 7 today and ask for disclosure of the docs by a certain date, and not to miss my defense date of the 28th ???....................... when i called them yesterday i asked if they had any idea when to expect the docs from QC and they said no idea at all, they also admited that QC are crap at time scales!!....so does this allow me to contact them again today to ask for the docs by a certain date???



thanks guys

[Amethyst]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

You're asking them to give you a letter agreeing to an extension of the defence filing date to send to the court while they sort out documents. If they don't supply them by the end of the extension you apply to the court to order them to be supplied and then they get kyboshed by the court if they don't supply them.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

thanks FP... right so it seems from the above that the embarrassed defense is not the way for me to go? as... i have/had no idea of who/what the debt may have been...... as i recognised the amount, but not the new account number listed in the PoC (they used QC ref number instead of the lloyds account number but have genuinely had NO correspondence in this matter since 2010 in final response letter from lloyds, nothing since from either party), i also have all my letters in regards to this alleged debt so saying i know nothing now is daft and could be said as lies?

Debt purchasers often use their own account numbers. As you say you do recognise the amount and you've got letters, you can't say you know nothing of the debt, as that would indeed, be lying, and you could leave yourself open to charges of contempt of court (which is a criminal matter). :incourt:

So i take it from reading the above i am best off speaking to the sol's as its day 7 today and ask for disclosure of the docs by a certain date, and not to miss my defense date of the 28th ???....................... when i called them yesterday i asked if they had any idea when to expect the docs from QC and they said no idea at all, they also admited that QC are crap at time scales!!....so does this allow me to contact them again today to ask for the docs by a certain date???

That's hardly a good argument on their side, is it? :mad2: Of course you can contact them AGAIN and get them to agree to an extension, they should give you the maximum 28 days the CPR allows you (after all they ARE crap with timescales, aren't they?) Get them to put the agreed date in writing so you can notify the court (you can do so by email as noted above). :typing:

[Amethyst]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

FP, will you look in chatbox I've been yelling you

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

As i thought about denying the claim, which i have not done..... i dont want to anyway,,,,,, i want to woop there bum


No its not a good argument lol, they have also stated the do NOT need to follow CPR or Pre action, this is popycock, right??

could i ask you please, do i have to, or, is it better to give them less than the 28days, so they definatley dont come up with the paperwork in time???........... or do they decide how long to extend it

[Amethyst]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

As i thought about denying the claim, which i have not done..... i dont want to anyway,,,,,, i want to woop there bum


No its not a good argument lol, they have also stated the do NOT need to follow CPR or Pre action, this is popycock, right??

could i ask do i have to, or, is it better to give them less than the 28days, so they definatley dont come up with the paperwork in time???........... or do they decide how long to extend it

Needs to be 28 days extension - helps you if you need to make an application. 7 days for documents (so can give them a 7 days deadline) then 21 days for you to do your defence.

And yes they do have to comply with preaction protocols - all claimants do regardless of amount or if it's bulk court. CPR's more argument on as it's a small claim.

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Thank you, i missed this a moment ago, that explains it....... thanks again for the quick replies

If they do not submit the documents in this extension period then you have a defence against the claim a nd it can't be bought again in the future.

If you just get them struck out they could apply for reinstatement later (when/if they find documents). Plus you'd have to show they have no reasonable grounds for the claim and the court does have discretion in these kinds of cases whether to allow enforcement.

[sarnie2109]

Re: cca REQUESTED FROM LLOYDS IN 2009 NOTHING AS YET...... NOW COURT PAPERS FROM CAPQ

Needs to be 28 days extension - helps you if you need to make an application. 7 days for documents (so can give them a 7 days deadline) then 21 days for you to do your defence.


Can i ask why/what this is in regards to then or when this could be of use please, not doubting you, just trying to learn the difference as posted earlier today...

There is the option for the Defendant where the Claimant is in-breach of the provisions of CPR rule 31.14 & 31.15 to make an application on an N244 form. Now then, you should exhaust all options before launching an application, it should be last resort not first. Let the creditor have the 7 days he is allowed. On day 8 write to him pointing out the time is slipping and that you require disclosure, ask for an estimate of when the documents will be provided. Don't be frightened to give the creditor a time frame. Say "I require the agreement by 4pm on xxxxxx 2012 or i will have no choice but to make an application to the Court" it will assist if the application is necessary.

---

And yes they do have to comply with preaction protocols - all claimants do regardless of amount or if it's bulk court. CPR's more argument on as it's a small claim.

i thought as much, cheeky feckers i just love how they act so 'above the law'



does the fact i sent many requests to lloyds and have letters from lloyds saying they have sent newer T&C's 4 years ago that did not comply with the CCA request, and instead of sending the actuall CCA they sent the application form, pics as in my first few posts in this thread......... does that help in, say me not now giving the solicitors more time(full 28days?) as the orginal creditors have had 4yrs to provide them and never have, no contact from lloyds or QC letter of asignment etc in this time and the sols have made a vexatious claim as they have started proceedings withOUT prior contact, time to discuss the alleged debt or even be in possession of the docs to open the court claim, just the 'word' of a client they themselves admit are usless??? may be a mute point but felt worth asking.