help needed please - application form as CCA sec 77 ?

[peed 'orf]

That was really quite confusing, I thought for a minute you were adopting a dog!
I take it (after a lot of squinting) it's a RSPCA credit card?

[hellhasnofury]

That was really quite confusing, I thought for a minute you were adopting a dog!
I take it (after a lot of squinting) it's a RSPCA credit card?

Yeah, that Is the ploy they used to get you to transfer your balance, saying they support the RSPCA. I think oft should start a royal sociey of prevention of cruelty to customers...that truely would be more appropriate..lol

[hellhasnofury]

Hello,

going to send this letter to restons re the court claim

Dear Mrs Im not so nice

Reference: HFC 5522011770074396

I write to you in response to the County Court Claim that has been issued to myself from HFC Bank Ltd. via yourselves.

I refer to my previous correspondence of 26th April 2007 in which I stated:

"Please note. I am now initiating investigations with HFC Bank Limited into the validity of the original amount that was claimed to be owed due to possible excessive charges and the fact it appears I have been defaulted twice for the above account. In the meantime please be aware that I consider this matter to be “in dispute”.

This letter appears to have been blatantly disregarded by yourselves.

I am sure that you are educated in the following:

The Office of Fair Trading Guidelines for Debt Collection (July 2003)

1. Introduction

1.1 The Office of Fair Trading has a duty under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to ensure that licences are only given to and retained by those who are fit to hold them. The Act provides that the OFT take into account any circumstances which appear to be relevant and in particular any evidence that an applicant, licensee, or their employees, agents or business associates, past or present, have:

* committed offences involving fraud, or other dishonesty or violence

* failed to comply with the requirements of credit or other consumer legislation

* practised discrimination in connection with their business

* engage in business practices appearing to us to be deceitful, oppressive or otherwise unfair or improper (whether unlawful or not).


Physical/psychological harassment

(2.5) Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive.

(2.6)Examples of unfair practices are as follows:
(f) pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments or to increase payments when they are unable to do so.

(g) making threatening statements or gestures or taking actions which suggest harm to debtors.
(h) ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.


Deceptive and/or unfair methods

(2.7) Dealing with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair

(2.8) Examples of unfair practices are as follows

(g) failing to refer on to the creditors reasonable offers to pay by instalments

(k) not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.

Charging for debt collection

(2.9) Charges should not be levied unfairly

(2.10) Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

(a) Claiming collection costs from a debtor in the absence of express contractual or other legal provision.

(b) Misleading debtors into believing they are legally liable to pay collection charges when this is not the case, for example. When there is no contractual provision.

© not giving an indication in credit agreements of the amount of any charges payable on default.

(d) applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual and necessary costs.

(e) Applying charges which are disproportionate to the main debt


Can you please clarify what the collection charge is in relation to this account. Is this charge for defaulting the account and can you point me to or clarify the contractual term that permits you to apply it and how is the charge justified in relation to your costs. I formally request that you give me a breakdown of the collection charge and how the figure has been calculated at £1,374.60 for my file..


On the 11th April 2007, I also sent your Client HFC bank a request for a true signed credit agreement for the above account. On the 4th May 2007, I received a copy of a pre-contractual application form, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of the true signed credit agreement for the account.

I have now sent my acknowledgement of Service to the Court with a intent to defend all of this claim

I await your response

Yours sincerely


Can you think of anything to amend or to improve it?

Comments

[peed 'orf]

it appears I have been defaulted twice for the above account.
I have now sent my acknowledgement of Service to the Court with a intent to defend all of this claim

Are you going for the removal of the defaults?

[Amethyst]

Hiya

Okay. Yes I think you should include something for removalof the defaults just so they have warning if you intend to incoprorate this into the defence.


The Letter

re OFT Guidelines.

I am sure that you are educated in the following:

The Office of Fair Trading Guidelines for Debt Collection (July 2003)

then I would say, specifically p1.2 or which ever parts are most relevant and just paste those on rather than the whoe caboodle.

Can you please clarify what the collection charge is in relation to this account. Is this charge for defaulting the account and can you point me to or clarify the contractual term that permits you to apply it and how is the charge justified in relation to your costs. I formally request that you give me a breakdown of the collection charge and how the figure has been calculated at £1,374.60 for my file..

maybe amend to

Please clarify the Collection Charge of £1,374.60 which has been added to my account. Please confirm the contractual term that permits you to apply it, and supply a full breakdown of how this charge has been calculated.

On the 11th April 2007, I also sent your Client HFC bank a request for a true signed credit agreement for the above account. On the 4th May 2007, I received a copy of a pre-contractual application form, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of the true signed credit agreement for the account.

amend

A formal request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 sections 77/78 was sent to your client on 11th April 2007. Your client has been unable to comply with this request and have only supplied me with a copy of the pre-contractual application for account. You will be aware of your responsibilities under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I look forward to receiving a true and legible signed copy of the orginal credit agreement for this account.

maybe use this sentence in relation to the dispute status of account

You will be aware that under the Banking Code, to which you subscribe, you may not default my account or take further enforcement action whilst the debt is in dispute. It is in both our interests to come to a swift resolution.

Also maybe add in

Your client, [bank/cc]., will be receiving a letter requesting the removal of the default on the register

[Amethyst]

Hope that helps a little bit.

I would send a copy to the for your file.



Defence wise - do you want to defend the full claim on the basis no CCA has been provided ? ask for removal of defaults ? and to have the debt wiped.

then in the alternative if they should come up with the CCA you want to defend the collection charge and any charges, and plea to pay in installments at an amount you can afford ?

[Amethyst]

This is a starting point for the no CCA documents defence

1. This Defence is filed and served without prejudice to the right of the Defendant to apply for summary judgment in respect of and/or to strike out the Particulars of Claim.

2. The defendant wrote to the claimant on 13th September 2006 enclosing a statutory £1 fee to request a signed copy of the agreement, under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. (Appendix A2)

3. This request has not been fulfilled.

4. The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79) state clearly that the claimant has 12 days to fulfill the request after which the claimant is in default. After a further calendar month the debt becomes unenforceable.

5. By failing to comply within the specified prescribed time the claimant has committed a criminal offence.

6. The Defendant invites the Claimant to remedy the above by supplying a copy of the original credit agreement. In the event that the Claimant fails to do so within 14 days of the service of the Defence then the Defendant will apply to the Court for an Order striking out the Particulars of Claim.

7. The Defendant reserves the right to plead further to the Particulars of Claim once and if the Claimant produces the original agreement. In the meantime, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief whether as pleaded or at all.

[hellhasnofury]

This is a starting point for the no CCA documents defence

Hello ame,

Wow thanks so much, for the amendment to the letter and now the poc.

Do I put the poc on the court papers and just send it back to them and wait,

I still feel very unsure and still need someone to hold my hand. Hopefully when I get to the other side. and even if the worse happens. I will have learned so much and be able to help others.

I am truely grateful to you for your help and support.

Again thanks

[Amethyst]

Okay hell, we discussed Kotum last night and to be honest I suspect your claim will go down a similar path. ie. they'll supply the CCA on receipt of defence and you'll need to submit the second defence. Of course fingers crossed they dont and stick with the application form without prescribed terms. (that reminds me actually keep meaning to paste those for you)

Work on your Defence wording, you might want to expand further from what I have pasted above.. I'll ask Ashley to come and have a look too.

What the final date for defence submission ?

[Amethyst]

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:
• amount of credit
• credit limit
• rate of interest
• repayments

When I find sch 6 online i'll link it.

[hellhasnofury]

Okay hell, we discussed Kotum last night and to be honest I suspect your claim will go down a similar path. ie. they'll supply the CCA on receipt of defence and you'll need to submit the second defence. Of course fingers crossed they dont and stick with the application form without prescribed terms. (that reminds me actually keep meaning to paste those for you)

Work on your Defence wording, you might want to expand further from what I have pasted above.. I'll ask Ashley to come and have a look too.

What the final date for defence submission ?

I submitted the acknowledgement of service on the 17th May so I think up to 28days from then. As for an cc agreement, I have a strong feeling that they will not be able to supply it on receipt of the defence, because I can't remember signing any thing else. I do feel quite confident about that.

I have not seen many defences so i may struggle at bit. I have read you defence and will try to expand on it, but it looks good to me,

Is it a bit like telling a story. Do I acknowledge the debt and mention paying monthly through payplan. etc etc.

Anyway again many thanks

[Amethyst]

28 days will be from the date you received the claim....

Re acknowledging the debt - that's a no for this first defence - the point of the CCA request is because you dont acknowledge the debt.....

so no mention of payplan as yet

that will come in the second defence - if its needed.

As far as you are concerned for the first defence there is no debt.

[hellhasnofury]

28 days will be from the date you received the claim....

Re acknowledging the debt - that's a no for this first defence - the point of the CCA request is because you dont acknowledge the debt.....

so no mention of payplan as yet

that will come in the second defence - if its needed.

As far as you are concerned for the first defence there is no debt.

Right I think I got it.

1st Defence I don't acknowledge the debt as you cannot hold me to the application form.

If they do come up with it (I do think it will be affabricated one,(I have been signing my letters in a different way so I will know if they have copied it.

Heaven forbid if they do come up with it

2nd defence. OK me lord I did spent the money, but they are truely greedy b******s and they are still making more money out of peoples misfortune.
So I do not acknowledge the collection charge and their contractual interest of £5.19 daily till judgement. I am prepared to continue with payments every month for the rest of my life

Have I got it now Ame

[Amethyst]

pretty much hun ---- you got a couple late payment charges to get back too


Collection charge you defend strongly as it is a penalty for a breach of contract and vastly disproportinate.

[hellhasnofury]

pretty much hun ---- you got a couple late payment charges to get back too


Collection charge you defend strongly as it is a penalty for a breach of contract and vastly disproportinate.

I received the court papers on the 25th May. I acknowledged on the 27 of may, so I presume it will be 28days from the 25th. so the defence need to be sent back before the 21st June. so I can calm down abit.

Speak soon and thanks