help needed please - application form as CCA sec 77 ?

[hellhasnofury]

Well I cetainly don't think you are a spy Hell, I've seen some of your posts on PPI and as I said on your arrival here, well admire you for that.
I didn't know how much you had going on in your life, especially with this. I can't help you with this I haven't a clue, but I will say good luck with it, although looks like you are in good hands and on top of things
I can say though, when you are feeling a bit naffed off and want to pack it all in, I am here for a bit of light banter and you can give me ears a bashing I don't mind. All the best Enaid.

Thank you Enaid,

I was a bit tongue in cheek with the spy thing. We were messing about in the chat room,

Thanks for your post it is really kind of you to be so thoughful.

I have found this site so helpful and yes I do believe I am in good hands, I think I would have put my hands up and would not have the confidence to fight them.

I am getting there now

[Amethyst]

thanks for the 2nd draft hell

i think we should leave the wilson case out - i doesnt really add anything and we can bring that and a few other decent cases in further down the line....we need running credit ones wilson is a fixed credit agreement so there are differences.

I'll paste the amendments to your second draft in a bit I'm just getting another couple eyes over it.

[Amethyst]

1. This Defence is filed and served without prejudice to the right of the Defendant to apply for summary judgment in respect of and/or to strike out the Particulars of Claim.

2. The defendant wrote to the claimant on 11th April 2007 enclosing a statutory £1 fee to request a signed copy of the executed agreement, under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. (Appendix 1)

3. In response to the defendants request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The claimant returned to the defendant a copy of a pre-contractual application form presented here. Whereas s.189 [definitions] describes "executed document" as "a document, signed by, or on behalf of, the parties, embodying the terms of a regulated agreement, or such of them as have been reduced to writing " (Appendix 2)

4. This pre-contractual document does not contain ALL of the prescribed terms under schedule (6) The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983

5. The Defendant further requested on the 2nd June 2007 that the Claimant supply the defendant with a true copy of the original credit agreement. This request has not been addressed.

6. The Defendant would further request via the court for the Claimant to remedy this by presenting the defendant with a copy of the original credit agreement. In the event that the Claimant fails to do so within 14 days of the service of the Defence then the Defendant will apply to the Court for an Order striking out the Particulars of Claim.

7.The Claimant is continuing to process Defendants data with Credit Reference Agencies. Defendant understands that Claimant has given an undertaking to said Credit Reference Agencies that before processing data from a data subject, they confirm they have the data subjects' permission. No executed copy means the Claimant is processing Defendants data without permission. In breach of their arrangement and a possible breach of the first principle of the Data Protection Act 1998.

8.The Defendant reserves the right to plead further to the Particulars of Claim once and if the Claimant produces the original agreement. In the meantime, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief whether as pleaded or at all.

[hellhasnofury]

1. This Defence is filed and served without prejudice to the right of the Defendant to apply for summary judgment in respect of and/or to strike out the Particulars of Claim.

2. The defendant wrote to the claimant on 11th April 2007 enclosing a statutory £1 fee to request a signed copy of the executed agreement, under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. (Appendix 1)

3. In response to the defendants request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The claimant returned to the defendant a copy of a pre-contractual application form presented here. Whereas s.189 [definitions] describes "executed document" as "a document, signed by, or on behalf of, the parties, embodying the terms of a regulated agreement, or such of them as have been reduced to writing " (Appendix 2)

4. This pre-contractual document does not contain ALL of the prescribed terms under schedule (6) The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983

5. The Defendant further requested on the 2nd June 2007 that the Claimant supply the defendant with a true copy of the original credit agreement. This request has not been addressed.

6. The Defendant would further request via the court for the Claimant to remedy this by presenting the defendant with a copy of the original credit agreement. In the event that the Claimant fails to do so within 14 days of the service of the Defence then the Defendant will apply to the Court for an Order striking out the Particulars of Claim.

7.The Claimant is continuing to process Defendants data with Credit Reference Agencies. Defendant understands that Claimant has given an undertaking to said Credit Reference Agencies that before processing data from a data subject, they confirm they have the data subjects' permission. No executed copy means the Claimant is processing Defendants data without permission. In breach of their arrangement and a possible breach of the first principle of the Data Protection Act 1998.

8.The Defendant reserves the right to plead further to the Particulars of Claim once and if the Claimant produces the original agreement. In the meantime, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief whether as pleaded or at all.

Hiya Ameythst,

Should this be the final draft, Do I print it off and attach it to the court papers.

Gotta go to work now, no rest for the wicked
Are you away tomorrow for your holiday.

If so have a good rest and hope the weather improves. I might go to Anglesly next weekend for a break.

Speak soon

[Amethyst]

aye I honestly think this is all you need..the other bits wait for bundles or further pleadings. I have ask Cet and Cel to have a look before you send it off I'll nudge them before I go.

You can enter the defence online same way you acknowleged -- but yes I'd prefer to send it in paper copy attached to the court forms. I assume you okay with layout etc. Dont forget to attach the appendix's.

Get it sent in and then chill for a while. Phone the court in a week check all is received etc.

Now in mine, not sure about in fed's, HFC asked for summary judgment, which they got.

In yours I do think they will produce the CCA if there is one, then you will be able to enter your back up defence....but after this is submitted it will just be a matter of waiting a while.

Good luck hun, you've worked hard...and we will get this sorted for you.

[hellhasnofury]

Defence submitted and received confirmation form the courts today, so now will just have to wait and see. They have 28days in which to respond or not!!!!

Have sent letters today to the chief exc at hfc and the ceo at hsbc complaining as regards their breaches of the oft guidlines and banking code etc.
Alos informed oft and the bankingcode standards board. So that has kept me busy over the weekend.

[hellhasnofury]

Hello,

Quick update,

Received a letter from th BCSB MMMMmmmm as much use as a chocolate fireguard

Reply from HFC not from the CEO, he is obviously far too busy and has passed it on to his lacky.

Their response. They have confirmed the application form is the credit agreement and insist it is.

They have sent me an apology that I did not receive the default notice and sent me a marbles template to show me what I should of received.

They will waiver the collection charge, if I write to restons to admit the balance of £xxxxx, fully exclusive of all court fees, costs and interest.

Any comment please,

I do feel that a letter is about to be letter contructed in response.

Thank you for your confirmation that the document you have sent me is the credit agreement for this alleged debt

[hellhasnofury]

Any Comments please

[hellhasnofury]

Another letter in today from their royal higness(not) The feckin solicitors


Further to this matter we understand that you have written direct to our client regarding you concerns with this account and by way of response our client has agreed to remove various charges and fees from the account.

As you will be aware the legal proceeding are ongoing and will need to be disposed of. In accordance with our clients request we would ask you to write to this office to confirm that you accept liability for the agreed sum of £xxxx.xx This will allow you the concession of the removal or interest charges, collection chages and fees and costs which are itemised in the claim form.

Upon receipt of your confirmation we will provide you with a consnt order for your signaature which will also allow you to avoid the necessity of a ccj and will effectively dispose of the current proceedings.


Please may we hear from you within seven days.


MMMMMM very interesting

me thinks they really do want me to admit to something.

[Amethyst]

Hey honey - thats good isnt it

''by way of response our client has agreed to remove various charges and fees from the account.''


YEY !

Thats great - and I would say it means they dont have the credit agreement.

don't confirm liability yet....ask for a preview of the consent order...well I would anyway - cause once they get you admitting lability thye could pretty much put anything on the consent order.


Good news so far.

[hellhasnofury]

Hey honey - thats good isnt it

''by way of response our client has agreed to remove various charges and fees from the account.''


YEY !

Thats great - and I would say it means they dont have the credit agreement.

don't confirm liability yet....ask for a preview of the consent order...well I would anyway - cause once they get you admitting lability thye could pretty much put anything on the consent order.


Good news so far.

Hiya Ameythst,

Thanks for your reply, much appreciated. They don't have the credit agreement, they have confirmed that the application form is the credit agreement.

I feel at the moment I do not wish to accept liability to anything, they have acted despicably, and I am tempted to let this run its course all the way to court. I do feel that I have the upper hand in this, the law is or should be on my side.but I may be wrong and will face the consequences if it happens.

I am angry and bitter and need revenge on them for closure, if you understand what I mean.

They threaten me and my family home, and when they know they cannot win this one, they turn to me to get them out of this mess, by asking me to write to them to admit it. they dangle the carrot by saying they will waiver all charges. Sorry I don't think so They weren't so understanding when they demanded over £9,000 to be paid in five days or court action. They started this so they can finish it.

I think I may be prepared to make them a token settlement payment, but only after I have deducted the £4,180 in interest that I have paid them, then there is compensation for the undue stress that they have put me through, breaching the banking code and the oft debt collection guidence.

Oh and misleading me in their unlawful persuit of the debt under the cca.

Oh this post is so theraputic.

Anyway thanks again for all your help and support getting me this far, but look what you have turned me into

I might change my mind tomorrow, when I've slept on it.

Or maybe not

[hellhasnofury]

Hello,

Just a quick update, I have admitted nothing to them, I have been very rude and not even responded to their attempt at getting me to admit anything.

Had another letter yesterday from restons,

We await a reply to our letter dated 7th July failing which the proceeding will be transferred to your local court for summary judgement proceedings:rolleyes:

Oh I'm almost nearly trembling, don't know if its fear or excitement.:crazy:

MMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmm

[iancognito]

Give them enough rope......as the saying goes!!!

[veilside01702]

Hi hell....
I got egg and moorcroft to wipe my debt.....
Seems like you are going the right way to getting things sorted...
they also needed to send a statement of account and current terms and conditions with any CCA they sent you....
Did they supply this??
If you don't respond the court may think you are trying to ignore the debt and get outta it....
My personal opinion is to force home the arguement with them, so the court see's you want to sort this out.....
They will try and twist things....so it maybe worth writing to them to make them aware you know their clients have so far:-
1) Failed to supply the required documents under a 'Consumer Credit Application Request', within the required time frame.
2) Admitted there is no copy of the alledged agreement. (admitting a criminal offence)
3) Attempted to harrass and bully you into paying an unsubstantiated debt.
4) Attempted to charge you unlawful penalty charges on this unsubstantiated debt.
5) Promised to investigate your complaint, yet shown no evidence that they have carried out any investigation.
6) Issued a default notice whilst this alledged debt is in dispute.
7) Issued 2 default notices for the same alledged debt.
8) Failed to supply a copy of default notice as required.

You get the drift hopefully.....lol
Make all correspondance precise and to the point.....ammo for court...
send copy to court dealing with this with explanation letter and CC at the bottom of letter to solicitors....to court and HFC....
If HFC see you are gonna fight back and not give up and pay...they may instruct solicitors to drop it....??
If they don't know what your doing the solicitors may not tell them.....so keep them involved....solicitors or not....lol
worked with me and egg.....they suddenly realised they were in serious trouble and backed down....
I will keep an eye on this thread and help anyway I can...
Russ

[hellhasnofury]

Hi hell....
I got egg and moorcroft to wipe my debt.....
Seems like you are going the right way to getting things sorted...
they also needed to send a statement of account and current terms and conditions with any CCA they sent you....
Did they supply this??
If you don't respond the court may think you are trying to ignore the debt and get outta it....
My personal opinion is to force home the arguement with them, so the court see's you want to sort this out.....
They will try and twist things....so it maybe worth writing to them to make them aware you know their clients have so far:-
1) Failed to supply the required documents under a 'Consumer Credit Application Request', within the required time frame.
2) Admitted there is no copy of the alledged agreement. (admitting a criminal offence)
3) Attempted to harrass and bully you into paying an unsubstantiated debt.
4) Attempted to charge you unlawful penalty charges on this unsubstantiated debt.
5) Promised to investigate your complaint, yet shown no evidence that they have carried out any investigation.
6) Issued a default notice whilst this alledged debt is in dispute.
7) Issued 2 default notices for the same alledged debt.
8) Failed to supply a copy of default notice as required.

You get the drift hopefully.....lol
Make all correspondance precise and to the point.....ammo for court...
send copy to court dealing with this with explanation letter and CC at the bottom of letter to solicitors....to court and HFC....
If HFC see you are gonna fight back and not give up and pay...they may instruct solicitors to drop it....??
If they don't know what your doing the solicitors may not tell them.....so keep them involved....solicitors or not....lol
worked with me and egg.....they suddenly realised they were in serious trouble and backed down....
I will keep an eye on this thread and help anyway I can...
Russ

Hello Russ,

Thank you so much for your support and advice

I feel that these two letters that have been sent are the first tactic/move by them to try to resolve this matter. I am not interested in replying to them to admit any liability and I want them now to sweat a bit. They are back tracking now, they know that they cannot win this one and they want me to admit so they will do me a favour and drop all the penalty charges that they have put on. mmmh don't think so.:devil:

They are the ones who started the ball rolling with their bullying and issuing a court claim. They are the ones who applied penalty charges and a collection charge to the total amount. They are the ones who have tricked the average customer, when they have not complied with the cca. They are the ones who are lying now about the default notice they supposedly sent.

I will respond to them at some time soon, but not at present.

They are the bullies and I am the victum in this senario The worm has turned.