Lowell (Provident Personal Credit) vs Me CC - can I change defense?

[Messy]

Hi, I've had a CC claim sent to me, I acknowleged receipt, sent my defense as I thought it was Statute Barred, I've since found old bank statements and there's a a payment of £10 to Provident Personal Credit on 29th January 2013, so it's not Statute Barred. I've now received from Lowells a copy of the DQ and today one from the Court. I need to change my defense to owing the money but its nearly 4k and, as a pensioner I have no way of paying this, I can fill out a means form and offer £10 per month but dont know if this will be acceptable? Please can someone advise me on how I can do this?

Thankyou

Messy

[jaguarsuk]

Hi, is Statute Barred the only defence you put forward?

[Diana M]

I acknowleged receipt, sent my defense as I thought it was Statute Barred, I've since found old bank statements and there's a a payment of £10 to Provident Personal Credit on 29th January 2013, so it's not Statute Barred. I've now received from Lowells a copy of the DQ and today one from the Court. I need to change my defense to owing the money but its nearly 4k and, as a pensioner I have no way of paying this

You would need to make an Application to the court for permission to file an Amended Defence unless Lowells are willing to consent to it. If you are on low or no income then you may be able to get fee remission for the application.

However that doesn't mean you have to change your Defence to an Admission just because the debt is not Statute Barred - it could have other arguable legal issues.

You say you are at the DQ stage so you can tick the box offering free telephone Mediation if you want to settle this claim without getting a CCJ (the Mediation settlement is legally binding but not a CCJ).

Have you sent a s 77-79 CCA Request to the Claimant with a copy to Lowells? If not then I suggest you do that now to strengthen your legal position.

When (what year) was the account opened and would you have had any PPI on it?

Di

[Messy]

Hi, is Statute Barred the only defence you put forward?

Hi yes it is as I thought it was.

[Messy]

You would need to make an Application to the court for permission to file an Amended Defence unless Lowells are willing to consent to it. If you are on low or no income then you may be able to get fee remission for the application.

However that doesn't mean you have to change your Defence to an Admission just because the debt is not Statute Barred - it could have other arguable legal issues.

You say you are at the DQ stage so you can tick the box offering free telephone Mediation if you want to settle this claim without getting a CCJ (the Mediation settlement is legally binding but not a CCJ).

Have you sent a s 77-79 CCA Request to the Claimant with a copy to Lowells? If not then I suggest you do that now to strengthen your legal position.

When (what year) was the account opened and would you have had any PPI on it?

Di

Thankyou so much for your response, I'm doing the s77-79 CCA Request today.

The account was started, according to the letter they sent me, 22/06/2009, I'm sorry I have no idea if it has PPI

I'd just like to add that the loan wasn't for me but my partner at the time to pay his business rates on a shop, he then left and of course the debt with me, as it's in my name I did my best to pay it but just couldnt afford it as I had to give up work due to illness, this is not an excuse I just wanted to give you more insight into why there are some things I don't know about, sorry.

Thanks Messy

[Diana M]

sent my defense as I thought it was Statute Barred, I've since found old bank statements and there's a a payment of £10 to Provident Personal Credit on 29th January 2013, so it's not Statute Barred.

At the moment only you know or think that the debt may not be Statute Barred from your own research. The Claimant might not know that.

Before you consider admitting the claim you need to check and double check your facts behind the scenes. So send a Subject Access Request to Provident to get the full history of the account.

Was this a "doorstep loan"?

Then it may make sense to seek permission to file an Amended Defence based on Lowells non compliance with your CCA Request (assuming they can't/don't comply in 14 days). You can ask them to consent to you filing an Amended Defence on the basis that if they don't then you will make an Application to the court and will seek a costs order against them if they don't consent.

Have you sent them a CPR 31.14 Request to produce documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim such as the Default Notice, Notice of Assignment, credit agreement etc?

Di

[Messy]

At the moment only you know or think that the debt may not be Statute Barred from your own research. The Claimant might not know that.

Before you consider admitting the claim you need to check and double check your facts behind the scenes. So send a Subject Access Request to Provident to get the full history of the account.

Was this a "doorstep loan"?

Then it may make sense to seek permission to file an Amended Defence based on Lowells non compliance with your CCA Request (assuming they can't/don't comply in 14 days). You can ask them to consent to you filing an Amended Defence on the basis that if they don't then you will make an Application to the court and will seek a costs order against them if they don't consent.

Have you sent them a CPR 31.14 Request to produce documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim such as the Default Notice, Notice of Assignment, credit agreement etc?

Di

Hi sorry for the late reply, I've been ill.

I did send the letters with £1 fee.

I've had a letter back from Lowells stating all the law details and the facts. It isn't stature barred, I've checked the bank statements etc., so I've registered with Lowells website to admit the claim and see if I could fill a finance form in but there isnt one on the website so I've had to phone them.

Their chap said the legal team would do a 'Tomlin Order' which they would charge me £100 for! He said don't worry it'll be added to the balance, I said, it's going to cost me an extra £100 on top of the debt, which I'd find difficult to pay anyway! I'm a 67yr old pensioner on a very tight budget and could probably manage £10 a month. I doubt they would agree to that really.

By a 'doorstep loan' do you mean did the agent collect payments from my house in cash, yes she did, thats how Provident work, or did a few years ago, there was no DD or SO then it was all a book and cash.

I'm sorry to waste your time and I really do appreciate all the help you've given me, it galls me to have to pay this as the loan wasn't for me, I didn't get a penny of it, the useless lump I got it for to help him out has long since gone and I just couldn't afford the repayments.

Lesson learned anyway!

Today I've had a 'GENERAL FOR OF JUDGEMENT ORDER, stating that I must file a the DQ in 7 days if I don't do this my defence/counter claim be automatically struck out without further order of the Court, and the Claimant with at liberty to enter judgement. Should I just go ahead with this or forget it and let them strike it out? I can't see that fighting it will change a thing when the facts are there that the debt is owed and I must pay it.

Thankyou for all your help once again, Messy

[jaguarsuk]

Hi sorry for the late reply, I've been ill.

I did send the letters with £1 fee.

I've had a letter back from Lowells stating all the law details and the facts. It isn't stature barred, I've checked the bank statements etc., so I've registered with Lowells website to admit the claim and see if I could fill a finance form in but there isnt one on the website so I've had to phone them.

Their chap said the legal team would do a 'Tomlin Order' which they would charge me £100 for! He said don't worry it'll be added to the balance, I said, it's going to cost me an extra £100 on top of the debt, which I'd find difficult to pay anyway! I'm a 67yr old pensioner on a very tight budget and could probably manage £10 a month. I doubt they would agree to that really.

By a 'doorstep loan' do you mean did the agent collect payments from my house in cash, yes she did, thats how Provident work, or did a few years ago, there was no DD or SO then it was all a book and cash.

I'm sorry to waste your time and I really do appreciate all the help you've given me, it galls me to have to pay this as the loan wasn't for me, I didn't get a penny of it, the useless lump I got it for to help him out has long since gone and I just couldn't afford the repayments.

Lesson learned anyway!

Today I've had a 'GENERAL FOR OF JUDGEMENT ORDER, stating that I must file a the DQ in 7 days if I don't do this my defence/counter claim be automatically struck out without further order of the Court, and the Claimant with at liberty to enter judgement. Should I just go ahead with this or forget it and let them strike it out? I can't see that fighting it will change a thing when the facts are there that the debt is owed and I must pay it.

Thankyou for all your help once again, Messy

Fill in the DQ as this will prevent the court taking action of entering a judgement of their own decision, if it were to be then you would have a CCJ. Tick Yes for mediation and in D1 put the name plus address of your local court (find here). Then add "Defendants Home Court pursuant to CPR 26.2A(3)."

The court will then progress with the claim, but then once you have the Tomlin Order and have been to a professional to ensure it's all good you can sign it. On returning it they should file it to the court and that will stay the proceedings. As long as you keep up payments as you agree to in the order that will be the end of it.

I would do mediation and offer the amount they said they would put in the Tomlin Order as repayment, an agreement at mediation is binding, is not a CCJ and won't cost you £100 for the privilege.

[warwick65]

Hi Messy

This was a provident loan owned by Lowell

Before you roll over I would have a chat with a solicitor (some do free initial advice)

You say Lowell sent you everything - who said what they sent was correct? Was it them? They would say that wouldn't they

There is nothing wrong with making Lowell prove their case

I had a Provident debt with Lowell and they were unable to comply with the S77 request - what they sent was an illegible copy of the front of the agreement and not the back with all the associated terms and conditions.


Have a chat with Diana M or another lawyer if you prefer

[Diana M]

I did send the letters with £1 fee.

I've had a letter back from Lowells stating all the law details and the facts. . . . . .

By a 'doorstep loan' do you mean did the agent collect payments from my house in cash, yes she did, thats how Provident work, or did a few years ago, there was no DD or SO then it was all a book and cash.

I'm sorry to waste your time and I really do appreciate all the help you've given me

. . . . Today I've had a 'GENERAL FOR OF JUDGEMENT ORDER, stating that I must file a the DQ in 7 days if I don't do this my defence/counter claim be automatically struck out without further order of the Court

You're not wasting anyone's time and I'm happy to give you more of mine

From what you say you've received that Order from the court because you haven't filed your DQ by the deadline. They have given you seven more days to file it or your Defence will be struck out regardless of its merit. Send back that DQ asap.

I think you should establish your legal position before you make any hasty decision to pay a £4k debt which may not be enforceable unless they've complied with your s 77 CCA Request. Have they?

You say you've received a letter from Lowells "stating all the law and facts" but have they sent you any documents because without tangible evidence they won't be able to prove their case. Anyone can state law!

That letter has frightened you into admitting the debt and paying it which you can ill afford to do as a pensioner. That was the purpose of their letter.

What documents did you ask for in your CPR 31.14 Request? Did you include the Default Notice in that request because they'll need that (and other documentation).

The Particulars of Claim are not posted on this thread so it's hard to make suggestions on you next step without knowing exactly what they are claiming and why they think they have the right to claim it.

Did you send a Subject Access Request to Provident as I suggested?

Provident have had difficultly in the past with their doorstep loans when the collectors failed to hand over the money. How much was the original loan and does the amount being claimed make sense compared to the payments you did make?

If you file your DQ you will have protected your legal positon while the 'enforceability' of this debt is explored.

Hang on in there.

Di

[Messy]

I think you should establish your legal position before you make any hasty decision to pay a £4k debt which may not be enforceable unless they've complied with your s 77 CCA Request. Have they?

I'm checking through it all and the answer is no they havent, all I got from them was the letter stating the law, the dates and the facts, I've had nothing back about my credit agreement at all.

What documents did you ask for in your CPR 31.14 Request? Did you include the Default Notice in that request because they'll need that (and other documentation).

I sent the letter that is posted on the forum? I sent the Lowells Solicitors and Lowell Portfolio l Ltd, their client not Provident.

I'm sorry I havent sent anything to Provident because they said Lowell Portfolio are their clients.

I have the PO receipts for the two Postal Orders I sent with Lowell as the Payee on them, so the proves I've sent the requests and they haven't replied or sent me any documentation.

My heads whirling with all this but I'm willing to 'hang in there' if it helps, maybe not me but someone else.

I have filled in the DQ and posted it today 23.4.2018

Whats next?

Thanks

Messy

[Messy]

[QUOTE=warwick65;n1400876]Hi Messy

I had a Provident debt with Lowell and they were unable to comply with the S77 request - what they sent was an illegible copy of the front of the agreement and not the back with all the associated terms and conditions.

It looks like that's what's happened here too, no mention of my request at all

Thanks for your suggestions, I'm not going to roll over even if my head is full of magic

[Messy]

UPDATE....... I've received a letter from Lowells Solicitors at last admitting that they had received my requests on 22 March 2018.

We have requested a copy of the Agreement and Statement of account from Provident Personal Credit Ltd. Whilst we will endeavour to provide evidence of the debt as soon as possible, you will appreciate this is dependent upon receipt of the information from our Client therefore it is likely a delay may occur.

As you filed a Defence it is likely that this matter will progress through the Small Claims Track and you should respond to any correspondence that the Court sends to you.

Notwithstanding with the above, our Client is keen to resolve the matter amicably and without the need for the matter to reach a final hearing. We therefore invite your proposals for repayment of the outstanding balance.

Does this mean they're no longer going to take me to court? I realise they're still trying to get me to pay the 4k by me contacting them and making an offer. I'll wait to see if I get anything else from the Court, is that right?

I've heard nothing about the mediation at all as yet.

Thanks as always

Messy

[warwick65]

I read that as they might just progress it through court so you need to make sure you do respond to any letters such as DQ;s that arrive

[GBExile]

I think we can safely say they are worried they will not come up with the documents in time for the witness statements deadline.