Didn't receive paperwork from the court (small claims)

[CMan007]

Many thanks for all the replies this is helpful. One final query for this particular matter is, should I send the n244 application asap. Is there a deadline for me to submit it?

[Pezza54]

You should send it asap as a prompt response to the strike out order will benefit your application and a delay may go against you. Certainly no longer than 14 days from the date you received the strike out notice (CPR 3.6 (2))

[Pezza54]

In post 3 you stated the defendant was meant to send you an "updated defence"

Did the judge make an Unless Order at the preliminary hearing? Did the judge say that unless the defendant files and serves an amended defence by a specified date the defence will be struck out?

IMO you should phone the county court to find out whether an amended defence has been filed. It is possible that the defendant has filed an amended defence but not served you with a copy

[JK2054]

that has no relevannce whatsover to what OP asked im not sure if your just trying to put things to make it look like you know what you're talking about after i correctly pointed out you were wrong or not, but please at least keep the messages in one so that OP can follow his/her thread more easily

[Pezza54]

Please let OP answer. Their answer may be relevant. There may be a court procedural error
I have found that posing several questions in a post to OP, some questions are missed and do not get answered and have to be asked again

[JK2054]

Many thanks for all the replies this is helpful. One final query for this particular matter is, should I send the n244 application asap. Is there a deadline for me to submit it?

no just fire it off using the template i gave you and you'll be fine. Don't make refernece to the defence issue thats irrelevant

[CMan007]

Last night I submitted the N244 (I felt a sense of urgency). To answer Pezza54, I made a claim against the Defendant personally, the defendants defence was that I worked for his limited company and therefore he was not liable for the debt.

The judge said he wanted to add the limited company as a defendant (2nd defendant) to the case and that the defendant should send an updated defence to the court (and to the other party - me).

The judge just mentioned 14 days - he didn't specify an exact date. The said that we should communicate and the defendant said he will send me a "proposal".

The defendant didn't send me his directions questionnaire nor his updated defence. I don't think he will send me anything (e.g. witness statement). This will be another matter I will have to deal with in due course.

I did message the defendant asking for a copy of his updated defence. And he responded saying he will send me a proposal in 21 days. I asked him against for his updated defence but he didn't respond to me (or send any kind of proposal).

[Pezza54]

Thanks for your post answering my questions.
The fact that the defendant hasn't sent you his amended defence or witness statement may mean he also didn't receive the court letter stating the deadlines for exchange of documents and payment of hearing fee.(they would be on the same letter)
Definitely worth phoning the county court to find out if there has been a procedural error - the court letter mentioned above not sent to either party

Did the judge confirm the order given at the hearing in writing?
Adding a second defendant to your claim would normally mean you amending your claim before the second defendant can file a defence
atticus am I right about amending the claim to add a second defendant after proceedings have started? (CPR 17.1 (2)(b) )

[JK2054]

phoning the court will be a wate of time I can promise you that

The order would have been sent as writing with the N157 with the trial fee.

No you are not right about abending the claim form, the court are the ones that added the second defendant, not the claiamnt.

[JK2054]

Last night I submitted the N244 (I felt a sense of urgency). To answer Pezza54, I made a claim against the Defendant personally, the defendants defence was that I worked for his limited company and therefore he was not liable for the debt.

The judge said he wanted to add the limited company as a defendant (2nd defendant) to the case and that the defendant should send an updated defence to the court (and to the other party - me).

The judge just mentioned 14 days - he didn't specify an exact date. The said that we should communicate and the defendant said he will send me a "proposal".

The defendant didn't send me his directions questionnaire nor his updated defence. I don't think he will send me anything (e.g. witness statement). This will be another matter I will have to deal with in due course.

I did message the defendant asking for a copy of his updated defence. And he responded saying he will send me a proposal in 21 days. I asked him against for his updated defence but he didn't respond to me (or send any kind of proposal).

well done for sending off your n244, dont worry about talking to the defendant, Just wait for the court to send you the outcome of your N244

[Pezza54]

CPR 19.4 (9) "A new defendant does not become a party to the proceedings until the amended claim form has been served on them"
Neither the court nor the defendant are going to amend the claim form for the claimant

[JK2054]

Pezza I really don't know how to say this, but frankly you seem like you have no real life experience or understanding with the court and how it works. If the judge orders a new defendant to be added, the judge can also order a new the service of the original claim form. Similarly, he can order that the court serve the amended form. The matter of fact is that quoting random CPR when you don't even know that a court finder exists, or that he should be calling the court to take a payment fee shows that you have absolutely no experience.

The OP needed help with the fact he did not receive papework. I have made careful and considerate suggestions, correcting you were you speaking rubbish.

The next step for the OP is to wait for the outcome of his N244 to reinstate his claim. Trying to tell him he needs to have amended this and served that when you have absolutely no idea, and are instead quoting CPR for when the CLAIMANT adds a second defendant, pretty much confirms you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, so please for the sake of avoiding giving the OP the incorrect information, do not post anything unless you are 100% sure it is both corrrect and relvant.

For the avoidance of doubt, and for the clarity of the OP you do not need to serve any form of amended claim form at this stage.

[Pezza54]

I stand corrected if you can direct me in CPR where it states the court will amend the claim form to add a second defendant.

You are incorrect. My post covers when the judge orders the addition of a second defendant, not when the claimant adds another defendant.

I have just read N157. It says in bold once the claim is struck out it no longer exists. It goes on to say that the claimant may start a fresh claim and will have to pay the court fee

How confident are you that you have provided the OP with correct advice, to make an application and incur a court fee?

[JK2054]

well I tried to be polite but clearly your too ignorant.

Court claims arent a textbook of the CPR, not least small claims. Courts have a practically unlimited discretion when it comes to small claims. If the court of its own motion adds a second defendant, claimant could care less about waht the CPR says. Unless he is directed by an order to serve the claim form on the 2nd defendant, or amend it, that is that. Its quite simple. The fact you don't know that is unsuprising because clearly you don't know a lot about the law or legal system, instead you try and guess like you do.

Your post does not cover when a judge orders the addition of a second defendant, because you are saying its OP's job to amend and serve the claim form, when he was not told to, that is not true. So clearly you do not know what you are talking about. I am not incorrect you are.

Again are you seriously trying to question me being right when I've spent pratically this whole thread correcting your absolute rubbish of incorrect information you have supplied?

Let me make it clear to you pezza, I have been through this court system probably over 200 times, I have appeard in front of judges at least 50 times. Given that I've registered for reinstation of 6 claims for non payment of trial fee via an application, and each has been reinstated, I think you will find I am 100% confident in my answer. May I say that unlike you I would not post to someone else's thread offering information unless I was 100% sure it was correct. Maybe that is something you should take up so you stop giving people the wrong advice.

As you would know if you had any sort of legal experience like you seem to claim you do, although may i say that itself is hindered by the fact you said you give legal advice, when you clearly don't, judges in small claims have a large discretion, they can make any order they deem appropriate. If a claimant doenst pay a trial fee, makes an application to reinsstate because they didn't get paperwork, that is simple as that, and no normal judge will refuse it. You seem all too focused on CPR which shows that you clearly have no real life experience, because if you did you would know that small claims really don't focus on CPR much, if at all.

So as I said earlier, please for the sake of avoiding giving the OP the incorrect information, do not post anything unless you are 100% sure it is both corrrect and relevant, because you have shown throughout this thread that you have basically no idea how things work in real life, and are simply trying to copy and paste from a government website because you think it looks good, or makes you look like you know what you're doing. The OP in this thread needs practical and real advice, and may I suggest that isn't going to come from someone who suggests calling a bulk CNBC number to get a court email address, nor is it going to come from someone that thinks you call the court directly to pay a court fee. Both of these things tell me that, like I already knew, you have absolutely no real life experience or knowledge, so please for the sake of the OP if nothing else, do not post anything unless you are 100% sure it is both correct and relevant, because frankly you are just going to confuse OP and mislead him with the wrong information because you don't yourself know whats right

[CMan007]

I have an update. I received a phone call from the court to take payment and I was told the fee for relief of sanctions is £303. I didn't pay it. I tried to argue that it should be £119, eventually the person on the phone passed me onto the court clerk who was adamant that the fee is £303 if I want relief from sanctions. Unsure what I should do