School Fees Claim Dispute

[Farmer Jones]

I have a solicitor chasing me for a terms unpaid school fees. They have issued a set of forms & finance questions. The solicitor sent the letter to a wrong address and I have written back requesting more time to reply (the school gave them the wrong address). However...I don't believe I owe the money:

My wife & I signed an "agreement" which refers to a "contract". The contract has changed a few times, and we have not signed these changed contracts (to be clear a separate item to the agreement). The agreement & contract is not governed by the Consumer Credit Act. The agreement states we are jointly responsible, and that we need to give one terms notice to remove our child from the school or pay one terms fees. This was signed in 2013.

My wife & I separated in Dec 2016.

My former wife gave the school one terms notice to remove our son from the school in Spring 2017 due to bullying issues.

The headmaster immediately (same day...within an hour or so of my former wife giving notice) contacted me and, divisively, asked what I wanted to do.( I was not aware that my wife had given notice, and I replied that I wanted to keep my son in the school). (I was out of the country and was not aware of what was happening)

School saying I didn't give sufficient notice to remove our son from the school and so under their T&C's they are chasing me for a terms fees. My wife did give sufficient notice, and they are not chasing her.

The school have not been able to supply a signed contract, only an agreement. The school Finance Director was not aware of the full situation, as the Head seems to be withholding information from him & the solicitors, so handicapping my defence. (The school have not followed their own complaints procedure and the school have not responded to requests for information (even when our son was at the school) and have not been able to supply policies & standards that the DoE have mandated they must.

I believe the school has failed in its duty of care to my son and is therefore in breach of contract.

Any advice gratefully received, as should this go to court, I will need to act as a litigant in person.



FJ

[des8]

Hi and Welcome

If you are sure the agreement was for joint liability and not joint and several liability I would be telling that solicitor to go back and read up his law books on Joint Liability!

Joint Liability is the basis on which co-obligors have together undertaken the same obligation to a third party .
If parties have joint liability, then they are each fully liable for the performance of the relevant obligation.
Performance by one discharges the other.

Then ignore all other letters (unless you enjoy tennis) as they will be pressurising you for some sort of payment.
Goes without saying that you do not ignore any court papers, but I doubt you'll see any of those

[jaguarsuk]

Whether or not the terms have been breached will depend on what the terms are, can you post a copy of the agreement (with personal information removed) to allow us to see the agreed terms?

The Solicitors letter with forms sounds like a Letter Before Action.

[des8]

The Solicitors letter with forms sounds like a Letter Before Action.

Overlooked that
But even if joint and sevearal liability, discharge by one discharges for both, so what cause of action can there be

[jaguarsuk]

Overlooked that
But even if joint and sevearal liability, discharge by one discharges for both, so what cause of action can there be

There isn't a CoA if that's the case and it'll be the Solicitor is playing "the game" hoping to scare them with the threat of court to cough up.

The terms of the agreement are what we need to see, once Farmer Jones posts them then we'll know exactly what we're dealing with. And if he deosn't have them it'll be "Box D" and "Box I" on the form to request them, plus any other relevant documents. Just to confirm FJ are the forms on pages 10-13 the one you have been sent here: https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...ebt-claims.pdf

[Farmer Jones]

Quote: The Parents are
legally responsible, jointly and severally, for complying with their obligations under these
terms and conditions.

The letter received from the solicitors (I am working away from home at the moment) contains a bunch of forms and a Pre something or other which asks me do I admit the debt, do I dispute it etc.

[Farmer Jones]

The actual contract is around 30 pages long and will need a whole load of redacting before I can post it. What sections are needed ? What is a CoA ? Yes I have received the Pre-Action forms you mention.

The "parents contract" definitely says "jointly and severally"

[jaguarsuk]

Hi and Welcome

If you are sure the agreement was for joint liability and not joint and several liability I would be telling that solicitor to go back and read up his law books on Joint Liability!

Joint Liability is the basis on which co-obligors have together undertaken the same obligation to a third party .
If parties have joint liability, then they are each fully liable for the performance of the relevant obligation.
Performance by one discharges the other.

Then ignore all other letters (unless you enjoy tennis) as they will be pressurising you for some sort of payment.
Goes without saying that you do not ignore any court papers, but I doubt you'll see any of those

I refer you to Des's advice (quoted above) then, write a letter to the Solicitor denying liability for the sum alleged, setting out how your wife gave notice per the terms of the agreement and that the agreement states "Parents are legally responsible, jointly and severally."

I would quote in the letter:

If parties have joint liability, then they are each fully liable for the performance of the relevant obligation.
Performance by one discharges the other.

Finally you could cheekily suggest they ought to brush up on their knowledge of Joint Liability.

Sorry CoA = Cause of Action. In issuing a claim there must be a cause of action, something must have happened to warrant the claim.

Igonre the Pre Action Protocol Forms you have been sent, they're irrelevant and stick with a letter back.

[Diana M]

My former wife gave the school one terms notice to remove our son from the school in Spring 2017 due to bullying issues.

. . . . I believe the school has failed in its duty of care to my son and is therefore in breach of contract.

By ‘duty of care’ I assume you mean the bullying your son was subjected to?

I think you need to get some legal advice on this issue if that (bullying) was the reason your son was withdrawn from the school at short notice.

Talk to a solicitor who specialises in this area.

How old is is your son and was the bullying reported to the Headmaster and the school Governors? Ask the school to provide you with the information if it’s your legal right to see it (depending on what was agreed in your divorce).

As you have said the solicitors appears not to know the full facts so maybe you should make them aware.

Di

[Farmer Jones]

Hi all

I have now received a very robustly worded letter from the schools solicitors, ending with

" ..in accordance with the PAPDC we will afford you 30 days to make payment failing which our instructions are to commence proceedings without further notice".

The solicitors consider the situation a contractual dispute and are ignoring the bullying issue.(The school failed to follow their own procedure for complaints and have taken the position that the case has been closed as my son no longer attends the school.....).In the solicitors letter to me, the school have requested me to direct all further correspondence to them. (So a para legal who specialises in debt collection knows about bullying....no this is the head master "outsourcing" his problems).

Time line :

Wife & I sign contract with the school in Feb 2012

Bullying starts June 2015

(Business falls apart,we get divorced and world falls apart Nov 2016, communications between former wife & I break down)

Wife complaining to school, school doing nothing.

Bullying continues through 12 year old son gets threatened by father of one of his tormentors. Escalating to school. School does nothing.

School failed to follow its own complaints procedure; school not making available its Sae Guarding Policy or Anti bullying policy (as I later found out they didn't have them at the time).

Wife not talking to me at all; school telling me one thing and my wife another. I wanted to keep my son in the school, based upon what the school was telling me.

May 2017: Wife gives written notice to the school that son will be leaving. (Contract is Jointly & Severally).Wife also informed the school that I was unemployed & could not afford the fees. (I have the emails & letters).

At this point there was no agreement or contract in place, it had been severed as per its conditions.

Same day as wife gives notice, Headmaster emails me asking that I keep my son in the school, I being unaware of that my wife had given written notice, agreed. However I never signed a new contract or agreement.

The school is relying upon this email from, obtained by the headmaster in a rather sharp manner, as means of getting me to pay.

My point being that I have not signed a contract to pay the fees, and the only contract in place was severed by my former wife's written notice.

Please advise !

I have raised the bullying issue further, although the school have not responded. I guess its of no concern to them now, as my son does not attend and...there is no contract or agreement in place.

Any help or advice thankfully received.

FJ

[jaguarsuk]

Hi

The wording at the letter is standard wording for a letter before action, although they shouldn't have abbreviated PAPDC as an individual not in a legal profession how are you supposed to know what that means? Pre-Action Practice Direction Protocols are the rules they need to follow before filing a claim to give you proper opportunity to settle the dispute without need of court.

This isn't a surprise as factually that is what it is, whilst the bullying is the cause of why you terminated the contract the dispute whether or not the contract was terminated.

The solicitors consider the situation a contractual dispute and are ignoring the bullying issue.

I think the content of that email will be very important and therefore you'd be wise to post a copy of it and your response (remove personal details).

Same day as wife gives notice, Headmaster emails me asking that I keep my son in the school, I being unaware of that my wife had given written notice, agreed. However I never signed a new contract or agreement.