Caught shoplifting

[bluebottle]

Re: Caught shoplifting

Hi Bluebottle

If the defense turns out to be that no theft took place perhaps a statement from the policiman who witnessed the purchase would be more reliable.(if relevant)

Cant really comment on the level of training of tesco security staff or the police force, although i shoud imagine that a working knowledge of criminal law would be pre requisite.

Peter

Hi Peter,

I totally agree with you about a statement from the police officer who attended.

As well as a working knowledge of Criminal Law, police officers also have to have a working knowledge of the laws and rules of evidence and relevant case law. Bearing in mind that a police officer may have to give evidence at the Court of Appeal, which is the domain of barristers, including QCs, a fairly high standard of legal knowledge is a must. The level of training private sector security officers receive, sadly, is woefully inadequate and doesn't take account of the two-part test prescribed by the Court of Appeal in R -v- Ghosh 1982, which is used to determine dishonesty in cases of fraud and theft. Private sector security officers are not just poorly-trained, they are often too easily swayed by retailers who consider compliance with case and statute law to be an inconvenience. If retailers were allowed to have their way, the court system would become clogged with petty shoplifting cases, which is the reason police forces will not deal with alleged shoplifting cases below a certain value. I'm afraid they've been there before.

BB
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I think it's quite intensive Peter:

1. If beeper goes off, stop customer

2. Check receipt

3. If you find an item not on the receipt they've stolen it.

4. This is against the law, take them upstairs and commence ripping them off through RLP.

This is pretty close to the truth of what goes actually goes on, LB

BB

[christina]

Re: Caught shoplifting

It seems RLP registered itself as a civil recovery firm and has solicitors onbroad but does not know what they are doing? Goods was paid for and entered into contract of sales;

RLP staff ( if the case is involved with RLP) is not employed by retailers, the company went in a contract with retailers, making themselves 1/3 of what they asked from offenders, is this lawful? PPl need to talk to trading standard. RLP staff refused to call shop manager/ refused to allow photo/ vedio recording of what happen in dealing with the shoplifter and also refused to allow good recovered to be paid for hence refused sales contract. How about shop lifting part? shoplifting and stealing is criminal offence but the retailers have chosen not to call the police /to take action and take the cases on their own hands, will RLP win their case in court, I do not think so.

[bluebottle]

Re: Caught shoplifting

It seems RLP registered itself as a civil recovery firm and has solicitors onbroad but does not know what they are doing? Goods was paid for and entered into contract of sales;

RLP staff ( if the case is involved with RLP) is not employed by retailers, the company went in a contract with retailers, making themselves 1/3 of what they asked from offenders, is this lawful? PPl need to talk to trading standard. RLP staff refused to call shop manager/ refused to allow photo/ vedio recording of what happen in dealing with the shoplifter and also refused to allow good recovered to be paid for hence refused sales contract. How about shop lifting part? shoplifting and stealing is criminal offence but the retailers have chosen not to call the police /to take action and take the cases on their own hands, will RLP win their case in court, I do not think so.

Hi Christina,

What you have highlighted is a breach of CPRs and the laws and rules of evidence on RLP's part. As such, an accused person has a legal right to have access to whatever evidence their accuser is relying upon.

With regard to shoplifting, there is a provision contained within the Theft Act 1968 which means a retailer has the discretion whether to accept payment or not. However, in my experience, this provision is all too frequently abused by retailers.

As far as RLP refusing to provide those they demand payment from with evidence of their alleged wrongdoing, that is a breach of the laws and rules of evidence and CPRs and its equivalent under Criminal Justice Law. At the end of the day, if RLP do not comply with statutory rules governing evidence and disclosure, they should not be surprised if a court throws their clients' cases out.

For your information, RLP only has one in-house solicitor in their employment - the other one left. Both are the subject of formal complaints to the SRA which are ongoing.
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I am not Irish.

If you can find a suitable avatar of a pair of clogs dancing by themselves, I might well change.

I'll see if I have any clip-art of clogs, CC. Can't guarantee they'll be dancing by themselves, though.

BB

[bluebottle]

Re: Caught shoplifting

Hi CC,

Attached is a PDF of a pair of clogs. Don't know if they're any good.

BB

[UKFLYER]

Re: Caught shoplifting

I have today received this letter from RLP. I did send the two letters,one to Tesco and one to RLP. I didnt send the £10.00,but just wanted to see what the response was.Here it is;

[CleverClogs]

Re: Caught shoplifting

I have today received this letter from RLP. I did send the two letters,one to Tesco and one to RLP. I didnt send the £10.00,but just wanted to see what the response was.Here it is;

capita eorum in ano sunt

Despite those silly buggers claiming that they are not the Data Controller - which is about the sloppiest deposit of poppycock I've seen for a year or two - they actually have notified the Information Commissioner's Office and I have attached a copy of their Registry entry below.

It makes quite interesting reading, especially when compared to the details of their Consumer Credit Licence.

[Guest]

Re: Caught shoplifting

DPA Legal Guidelines

2.5 Data Controller
Definition

Data controller means:-
“… a person who (either alone or jointly or in common with other persons)
determines the purposes for which and the manner in which any personal data are, or
are to be, processed”.
It is important to establish whether or not someone is a data controller because it is
data controllers who are required to comply with the Data Protection Principles.
Section 4(4) of the Act provides that:-
“… it shall be the duty of a data controller to comply with the Data Protection
Principles in relation to all personal data with respect to which he is the data
controller”.
A data controller must be a “person” i.e. a legal person. This term comprises not only
individuals but also organisations such as companies and other corporate and
unincorporated bodies of persons.
According to the definition in the Act, a data controller or data controllers, must
decide the

purposes for which personal data are, or will be, processed and the way

in which personal data are, or will be, processed. The Commissioner’s view is that the
determination of the purposes for which personal data are to be processed is paramount
in deciding whether or not a person is a data controller and that when a person
determines the purposes for which personal data are to be processed, a decision as to

the manner in which those data are to be processed is often inherent in that decision.

peter

[bluebottle]

Re: Caught shoplifting

Thanks for that, Peter and CC. It seems that Jacqueline Lambert is digging a ruddy great hole for herself, RLP and Tesco. Trouble is, I don't think she realises just how deep the hole is.

[UKFLYER]

Re: Caught shoplifting

What would you suggest my next step is?

[CleverClogs]

Re: Caught shoplifting

What would you suggest my next step is?

Send them a £10 postal order, making it clear that it was for the payment of the maximum statutory fee for the s7 request.

[charitynjw]

Re: Caught shoplifting

If you SAR them, don't forget to remind them of DPA s35.

35 Disclosures required by law or made in connection with legal proceedings etc.
(1)Personal data are exempt from the non-disclosure provisions where the disclosure is required by or under any enactment, by any rule of law or by the order of a court.
(2)Personal data are exempt from the non-disclosure provisions where the disclosure is necessary—
(a)for the purpose of, or in connection with, any legal proceedings (including prospective legal proceedings), or
(b)for the purpose of obtaining legal advice,
or is otherwise necessary for the purposes of establishing, exercising or defending legal rights.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/section/35

[Guest]

Re: Caught shoplifting

Not wishing to be contentious but just what exactloy would a DPA achieve they are just going to snd a letter full of garbage and pocket the £10 IMO.

You are not going to be take to take them to court for anything, they have al the bases covered, fortunately they are not going to take you to court either(they would loose) so just ignore them.

Peter

[UKFLYER]

Re: Caught shoplifting

I thought i would add an update to my story. I sent off the letters suggested to RLP and Tesco. Up until now,i have not heard a thing from either of them.
Do you think that will be the end of it or are they lightly to suprise me at a later date.
Thank you again for all the help and advice you have given to me.

[bluebottle]

Re: Caught shoplifting

I thought i would add an update to my story. I sent off the letters suggested to RLP and Tesco. Up until now,i have not heard a thing from either of them.
Do you think that will be the end of it or are they lightly to suprise me at a later date.
Thank you again for all the help and advice you have given to me.

Both RLP and Tesco have 40 calendar days from the date they receive your SAR in which to comply. If they do not comply, contact the ICO. The ICO's website is at www.ico.gov.uk.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Caught shoplifting

BBC - Watchdog: Possible flaws with civil laws...

Any idea why the schilly schods haven't threatened to schue the BBC?