please help - accused of shoplifting from asda

[Guest]

Re: please help - accused of shoplifting from asda

Having said that. If the OP wanted to take legal action for illegaly taking money from them with menaces, they would have cause, but if the police were present they may have a problem in making the claim stick.

D

[gaz2006]

Re: please help - accused of shoplifting from asda

See ************* below
Gaz,

Can I just clarify what actually happened in your friends' case?

Are you saying that they were accused by a security bod of shoplifting, ************** yes but not the day they were there accused of shoplifting on 2 occasions before
the police were called and in the presence and hearing of a police officer threatened with arrest if they didn't pay £40? Or was this threat made prior to the arrival of the police? *********** it was around £40 i believe not sure exact figure without looking back letter i wrote to head office and i believe threat made by security not police but in their presence

Even if the manager did not make the demand themselves, they are still liable because the security bod is under their control and they have a duty to ensure this sort of thing doesn't go on. As for the refusal to provide CCTV footage, both the manager and Asda head office are wrong. They are not allowed to suppress such evidence.************ havent asked head office to provide cctv said they were refused by manager in letter
This is enshrined in Criminal Justice Law and, also, Civil Law. Your friends need to contact their local Law Centre, not CAB, as CAB advisors are not trained in the complexities of Criminal Law. Solicitors and police officers are. I am a retired police officer and have kept up to date with changes in the law, as well as having studied other areas of English Law.[/QUOTE]******** so u dont advise sending letter to head office quoting sections of law on this matter ?
Regards Gaz

[gaz2006]

Re: please help - accused of shoplifting from asda

This is where i have the problem.
It seems to me that all the store did(although totally ham handedly) was to get the person to pay for goods they had taken.************ yes but they say they didnt take any goods and have receipts on days in question so money has been demanded with menaces when it wasnt due
No prosecution was forthcoming for the act, Asda can ban whoever they like from their store for whatever reason.************ but if they didnt take anything then there is no reason for a ban

They will say that if they did not owe the money, why did they pay it?*******because they didnt want to get arrested i guess and just wanted to get away from there if it happened to me id have stood my ground but it wasnt me

As for divulging security camera footage, why would they, there has been no offense, the footage would just show many shoppers shopping.************ but they said was offences 2 times not paying for goods ie self scan but not paid

D[/QUOTE]

[gaz2006]

Re: please help - accused of shoplifting from asda

Having said that. If the OP wanted to take legal action for illegaly taking money from them with menaces, they would have cause, but if the police were present they may have a problem in making the claim stick.

D

Surely if police there if they are honest they can confirm what was done are you saying police will lie naughty you ha ha

[bluebottle]

Re: please help - accused of shoplifting from asda

I have to go by the circumstances that are presented in the posts in this thread in order to state a considered opinion. I will, therefore, deal with the separate issues -

Allegations - Asda have both failed and refused to produce evidence substantiating their allegations. The claim that the CCTV footage can only be shown in court is total crap. There are strict rules governing the disclosure of evidence and time-limits for providing it to a defendant. In the case of criminal offences, this is governed by the Police & Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE) and Criminal Procedures Rules. Your friends have a right to see any evidence of any alleged offence the security bod claims they committed. Asda head office, in Leeds, need to be made fully aware of what one of their branch managers and security staff are up to and invited to provide the evidence to substantiate the allegations.

Banning Order - A retailer has a right to exclude any person from their premises as they see fit without citing a reason.

Actions of Security Bod - I am somewhat surprised a warranted police officer allowed the security bod to behave the way he/she did. This needs to be addressed. On the face of it, if your friends have paid for the items the security bod has alleged they stole and can produce the receipts to prove this, then Asda need to be made aware of this and required to return the £40 forthwith by the same method it was paid. There may be grounds for making a formal complaint against the police officer as if they allowed what is a possible offence of Blackmail on the part of the security bod to take place in their presence and did nothing, that is Neglect of Duty.

Failure to Act on Days of Alleged Offences - An experienced police officer would have queried why Asda did not take action on the days of the alleged offences by your friends. The police officer involved in this case may be a probationer, that is, a police officer in the first two years of service. Nevertheless, if this matter were to be litigated in a court of law, the court and, indeed, a legal professional would challenge the actions of the security bod and the manager in this respect.

Next Steps - This matter is not something I would advise a layman to tackle on their own without the assistance of a legal professional. Your friends need to speak to a legal professional about this and be guided by them.

[CleverClogs]

Re: please help - accused of shoplifting from asda

But apparently on the"considered Judgement"of the police present the parties satisfied the test and were about to be arrested?
Unless i have read it wrong.

Whilst would appear that the dibble(s) called took the side of the putative 'manager', one should remember that it has not been unknown for people to be wrongly arrested.

It is also quite possible that the dibble(s) 'thought' it would be a quicker/easier way of 'clearing it up'.

[CleverClogs]

Re: please help - accused of shoplifting from asda

This is where i have the problem.
It seems to me that all the store did(although totally ham handedly) was to get the person to pay for goods they had taken.
No prosecution was forthcoming for the act, Asda can ban whoever they like from their store for whatever reason.

They will say that if they did not owe the money, why did they pay it?

As for divulging security camera footage, why would they, there has been no offense, the footage would just show many shoppers shopping.

You do realise you appear to have contradicted yourself, don't you?

[CleverClogs]

Re: please help - accused of shoplifting from asda

Banning Order - A retailer has a right to exclude any person from their premises as they see fit without citing a reason.

Yes and no. A retailer may not lawfully exclude a person on the basis of their ethnicity, race, sexuality or other cause outlawed by the Equality Act.

Besides, how could such a ban work at all stores in the company? It is plainly nonsense.

[gaz2006]

Re: please help - accused of shoplifting from asda

see ********** below


I have to go by the circumstances that are presented in the posts in this thread in order to state a considered opinion. I will, therefore, deal with the separate issues -

Allegations - Asda have both failed and refused to produce evidence substantiating their allegations. The claim that the CCTV footage can only be shown in court is total crap. There are strict rules governing the disclosure of evidence and time-limits for providing it to a defendant. In the case of criminal offences, this is governed by the Police & Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE) and Criminal Procedures Rules. Your friends have a right to see any evidence of any alleged offence the security bod claims they committed. Asda head office, in Leeds, need to be made fully aware of what one of their branch managers and security staff are up to and invited to provide the evidence to substantiate the allegations.

Banning Order - A retailer has a right to exclude any person from their premises as they see fit without citing a reason.

Actions of Security Bod - I am somewhat surprised a warranted police officer allowed the security bod to behave the way he/she did. This needs to be addressed. On the face of it, if your friends have paid for the items the security bod has alleged they stole and can produce the receipts to prove this, then Asda need to be made aware of this and required to return the £40 forthwith by the same method it was paid. There may be grounds for making a formal complaint against the police officer as if they allowed what is a possible offence of Blackmail on the part of the security bod to take place in their presence and did nothing, that is Neglect of Duty.************ of the 2 receipts on days in question 1 was for exact amount they said had been taken without paying other was for lesser amount something like debit was for £6 of goods they said theyd taken £16 etc

Failure to Act on Days of Alleged Offences - An experienced police officer would have queried why Asda did not take action on the days of the alleged offences by your friends. The police officer involved in this case may be a probationer, that is, a police officer in the first two years of service. Nevertheless, if this matter were to be litigated in a court of law, the court and, indeed, a legal professional would challenge the actions of the security bod and the manager in this respect.

Next Steps - This matter is not something I would advise a layman to tackle on their own without the assistance of a legal professional. Your friends need to speak to a legal professional about this and be guided by them.*********** all good points ill talk it over with them

[gaz2006]

Re: please help - accused of shoplifting from asda

Thanks for everyones input all very constructive I will let you know what happens Regards Gaz

[Guest]

Re: please help - accused of shoplifting from asda

You do realise you appear to have contradicted yourself, don't you?

How so?

[bluebottle]

Re: please help - accused of shoplifting from asda

Yes and no. A retailer may not lawfully exclude a person on the basis of their ethnicity, race, sexuality or other cause outlawed by the Equality Act.

Besides, how could such a ban work at all stores in the company? It is plainly nonsense.

Funny you should mention that, CC. Where they have CCTV footage, they tend to circulate framegrabs. How legal this is is another matter. You are quite right about the Equality Act 2010. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Guest]

Re: please help - accused of shoplifting from asda

Surely if police there if they are honest they can confirm what was done are you saying police will lie naughty you ha ha

No i am saying that it is unlikely that any charge of demanding money with menaces will stand if the police were present when the demand was made.

D

[bluebottle]

Re: please help - accused of shoplifting from asda

see ********** below


I have to go by the circumstances that are presented in the posts in this thread in order to state a considered opinion. I will, therefore, deal with the separate issues -

Allegations - Asda have both failed and refused to produce evidence substantiating their allegations. The claim that the CCTV footage can only be shown in court is total crap. There are strict rules governing the disclosure of evidence and time-limits for providing it to a defendant. In the case of criminal offences, this is governed by the Police & Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE) and Criminal Procedures Rules. Your friends have a right to see any evidence of any alleged offence the security bod claims they committed. Asda head office, in Leeds, need to be made fully aware of what one of their branch managers and security staff are up to and invited to provide the evidence to substantiate the allegations.

Banning Order - A retailer has a right to exclude any person from their premises as they see fit without citing a reason.

Actions of Security Bod - I am somewhat surprised a warranted police officer allowed the security bod to behave the way he/she did. This needs to be addressed. On the face of it, if your friends have paid for the items the security bod has alleged they stole and can produce the receipts to prove this, then Asda need to be made aware of this and required to return the £40 forthwith by the same method it was paid. There may be grounds for making a formal complaint against the police officer as if they allowed what is a possible offence of Blackmail on the part of the security bod to take place in their presence and did nothing, that is Neglect of Duty.************ of the 2 receipts on days in question 1 was for exact amount they said had been taken without paying other was for lesser amount something like debit was for £6 of goods they said theyd taken £16 etc

Failure to Act on Days of Alleged Offences - An experienced police officer would have queried why Asda did not take action on the days of the alleged offences by your friends. The police officer involved in this case may be a probationer, that is, a police officer in the first two years of service. Nevertheless, if this matter were to be litigated in a court of law, the court and, indeed, a legal professional would challenge the actions of the security bod and the manager in this respect.

Next Steps - This matter is not something I would advise a layman to tackle on their own without the assistance of a legal professional. Your friends need to speak to a legal professional about this and be guided by them.*********** all good points ill talk it over with them

No matter what, the onus of proof is on the security bod, the manager and Asda. No evidence, no offence, no right in law to demand money on threat of arrest. If the security bod is SIA-registered and is found to be in the wrong, not only could they lose their job, they could also risk losing their SIA licence. As far as I am aware, where the SIA revoke licences, they do not reinstate them. If anyone knows different, please speak up.

[CleverClogs]

Re: please help - accused of shoplifting from asda

If the security bod is SIA-registered and is found to be in the wrong, not only could they lose their job, they could also risk losing their SIA licence. As far as I am aware, where the SIA revoke licences, they do not reinstate them.

Would the security goon then have to seek employment as a bailiff?