Dogs Trust

[sean5302]

Re: Dogs Trust

[QUOTE=des8;541043
Unless the animal is required for show or breeding purposes I really don't understand why peeps object to neutering.
If neutered, the overpowering urge to mate is removed./QUOTE]

Hi Des. The voice of reason.
I'm tempted to ask you whether you are required for show or breeding purposes. Only joking, but I know you'll get the point.
The point is that a FAMILY turned up, with an intact Great Dane, only to be reduced to tears.
Never acceptable.
Then, a very responsible OP came here for advice on the law and how best to respond.
I think they were given that, only to receive conflicting advice in the very next post.
I post on very many Forums but would wonder what was going on here.

[Amethyst]

Re: Dogs Trust

I don't know anything about dogs, or neutering, or the law surrounding such, but people have different opinions and are allowed and encouraged to share them. I don't believe enaid has said she disagrees with your interpretation of the law and has simply expressed her opinion on the neutering of dogs up for adoption. I don't think that entitles you to have a go at her I'm afraid, you simply disagree, as many do on many things. Opinions though aren't in questions here as really the OP is only interested in whether the Dogs Trust have interpreted the law correctly when discussing the adoption of the dog in question with the children and family. It appears that they have 'over-egged' some aspects for reasons only known to themselves and they should be pulled up on it.

[sean5302]

Re: Dogs Trust

Post 3:

"I myself do not agree that the charity was anything but honest.

Every dog to be adopted will be neutered so as to help the recurring problems of over breeding."

Absolute nonsense.
The charity was not honest. "Your Great Dane will suffer medical problems as (s)he isn't neutered". You what?
Where did the second sentence come from? Certainly not in UK law. Is that just their policy? Why not say so?
The law says someone under 16 can't walk a dog on a lead.
Where, exactly?
I expect "Legal" to have relevance in law
"Beagles" to have some relevance to dogs, or to rhyme with "legal".
I'm sorry, but I think we've let the OP down in this thread.
I won't respond to Diane's (enaid?) posts again.

[des8]

Re: Dogs Trust

[QUOTE=sean5302;541056]Ever heard the phrase:


You are the only person to ever publicly disagree with me, on a public forum, upon a matter of law which I know to be absolutely correct.
Well in that case here is your second person: Animal Welfare Act S11 (4) permits transfer to an under 16 year old if that person is accompanied by a person not under the age of 16 years.(The act does not stipulate at that point the person must be a family member, Your post 4 is only partially correct and post 2 "you can only own a pet legally from age 16" wrong )

Post 7 "My Dane is treated as a member of the family. He thinks he's human"Doubt it. He thinks you're leader of the pack!

Having made those comments I would add that basically I agree with your sentiments, but if you are going to admonish posters to be ashamed of themselves do make sure you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!

Gosh, I'm so slow on the keys I'm out of synch with the last 3 posts!!!!!!!!!

[sean5302]

Re: Dogs Trust

Hi Des.
I bow to your superior knowledge.
I really didn't want to make such an issue of this. This really is a very good Forum and most people genuinely want to help people. Just as I do.
My post 4 may be partially correct. I don't think I have to be ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. Maybe I've been spoiled over the last 40 years. What I've done has benefitted not just myself, so it must have been correct.
My Dane does think he's human. His food and bed suggest that.
I'm not admonishing posters. I think Diane is a member of the LB team. We have a duty of solidarity, otherwise it's like HMRC. You ask 3 of their people the same question and I guarantee you'll get 6 conflicting answers.
Maybe I'm not in the right Forum.
I get the same questions asked here that I respond to, with exactly the same answers, on the other Forums.
If that's the case, please delete my membership. It really doesn't matter to me.
I like it here but will just go elsewhere. Pity as I like Amethyst, Kati and yourself.

[des8]

Re: Dogs Trust

[QUOTE=sean5302;541059][QUOTE=des8;541043

I'm tempted to ask you whether you are required for show or breeding purposes. Only joking, but I know you'll get the point.
/QUOTE]

Both!!! but after 9 children I've been put out to graze.!

[sean5302]

Re: Dogs Trust

Word Association.

"Television".

Get one.

Some very bright people on this Forum. You're one of them. Thanks mate.

[enaid]

Re: Dogs Trust

I'm afraid that I disagree, enaid.

If this Trust has a policy of only selling neutered dogs, I advise going elsewhere.
.
It's just as I have written.

As for being ashamed of myself, I think not

http://savethestrays.co.uk/about-the-stray-situation/

20 dogs put to sleep each dayin the UK by Local Authorities.

[Kati]

Re: Dogs Trust

I've read all of this thread now and don't really want to get into an argument with anyone, but I will say one thing.

Growing up on an Animal Sanctuary, I have seen the trouble that re-homing animals (of any kind) can mean. 99% of animals re-homed in the UK today (through a reputable charity/shelter) will either have already been neutered, or they come with a 'voucher' to use at a local vets. At our rescue all cats, dogs, rabbits, guinea pigs and ferrets are neutered before rehoming as a matter of principle.
From the Dogs Trust themselves (https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/whats-h...icer-to-neuter)

Here at Dogs Trust, we strongly believe that It’s “nicer to neuter” But why is this? To mark World Spay Day, we speak to Dogs Trust Veterinary Surgeon Ariel Brunn, about why Dogs Trust believes it is “nicer to neuter”

Why is it nicer to neuter?
Here at Dogs Trust, we believe neutering to be the kinder option for your dog for many reasons. Firstly and rather importantly, neutering your dog helps to prevent thousands of unwanted puppies being born every year that may then be destroyed, cruelly treated or abandoned once people realise the commitment of owning a dog.
Raising puppies can also be very expensive, and neutering your dog means no unplanned pregnancies or unwanted costs, as well as serious health risks that can occur during pregnancy.
For families, neutering can also reduce aggressive or unwanted sexual behaviour, and encourage calmer, more predictable behaviour, which makes a dog a much more family-friendly pooch.

Is neutering a healthier option for a dog?
There are certainly health benefits to neutering, yes. For example, it cuts down on the possibility of potentially fatal womb infections as well as the risk of some types of cancer in both male and female dogs.
Neutering can also be safer as it discourages male dogs wandering to find female pooches in season, which happens for about three weeks, twice a year. Male dogs are also less likely to mark their territory too!

What does neutering en-‘tail’?
Neutering a male is the surgical removal of the testicles, whilst spaying a female is the removal of the ovaries and, generally, the uterus as well.

How can Dogs Trust help?
A pup rehomed from Dogs Trust may be neutered before he or she goes home or we will send each pup home with a neutering voucher for their local participating vet, but for non-Dogs Trust furry friends, in many UK areas we offer Low Cost Neutering to anyone on a means-tested benefit.

We (at our rescue) don't mind people who bring children to the meets pre-adoption, but if an animal has 'issues' that would mean a certain age group/gender would be difficult for it to cope with it would definitely be brought up as soon as noticed ... although maybe with a bit more tact than it seems to have been done at the Dogs Trust here :sad:

Both my own (rescue) dogs are neutered one before I got her, the other in an attempt to stop him jumping over the garden wall every time a bitch was in season in the village ... he was in danger of being shot by the local farmers if he was caught in their lambing fields.

One of the main 'reasons' against neutering male dogs that we hear about in our rescue is much like what Sean said (post #2 I believe)

what will he lick if they're taken away??

or

"He'll look deformed ... like somethings missing"

our reply is to show them these (yes we have a demo pair :lol - http://www.neuticles.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuticles

Neuticles are prosthetic testicular implants for neutered dogs and other domestic animals. Creator Gregg Miller won the 2005 Ig Nobel Prize in Medicine, a parody of the real Nobel Prize, for his invention.^[1][2]
According to the website, over 500,000 pets have been 'neuticled' since the product was introduced in 1995 in all 50 states of the USA and 49 countries. There are 28,000 participating veterinary clinics and hospitals that perform the procedure.

K xx

[Kati]

Re: Dogs Trust

A bit more info for you:

Dogs Trust stated that under 16s can not own pets especially dogs. Is this correct?

- from 2007 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6521765.stm

People will be legally liable for the basic welfare of their pets under new laws coming into force in England.The Animal Welfare Act, which became law in Wales last week, includes harsher fines of up to £20,000 and jail terms of up to a year for cruelty.
The RSPCA is raising awareness of the act, which has been dubbed a bill of rights for pets, ahead of its official introduction on Friday.
The government says existing laws are outdated and too inflexible.
The Act, which raises penalties for cruelty from the previous maximum of six months in prison or a £5,000 fine, is the most significant new law on animal welfare for 94 years.
It imposes a duty of care for non-farm animals, for the first time.

Under the Act the minimum age for buying a pet will rise from 12 to 16, and under-16s will not be allowed to win a pet as a prize.

so ... under the AWA it is stated that an under 16 cannot buy or win a pet - although a family pet should not be classed as being 'just' the childs anyway

and page 3 here - https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ogs-091204.pdf "Code of Practicefor the Welfare ofDogs"

Under the Act you are always responsible for your dog’s needs. Furthermore, if you are a parent or guardian of a child under the age of 16 years old, you are responsible for any animal that child is in charge of or owns. If you are unable to care for your dog at any time, you must make arrangements or another suitable person to look after it on your behalf. It is important to remember that you remain responsible for your dog’s needs, even when you are away. The person with whom you leave your dog will also be legally responsible for your dog’s welfare in your absence.

If you own or are responsible for a dog, and fail to meet its welfare needs or cause it unnecessary suffering, you may be prosecuted under the Act.

They also stated that it is illegal for under 16s to walk dogs on a lead even with adults?

They could have beem referring to section 7,1(b) of the dangerous dogs act here - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/65/section/7

7 Muzzling and leads.

(1)In this Act—


(a)references to a dog being muzzled are to its being securely fitted with a muzzle sufficient to prevent it biting any person; and


(b)references to its being kept on a lead are to its being securely held on a lead by a person who is not less than sixteen years old.


(2)If the Secretary of State thinks it desirable to do so he may by order prescribe the kind of muzzle or lead to be used for the purpose of complying, in the case of a dog of any type, with section 1 or an order under section 2 above; and if a muzzle or lead of a particular kind is for the time being prescribed in relation to any type of dog the references in subsection (1) above to a muzzle or lead shall, in relation to any dog of that type, be construed as references to a muzzle or lead of that kind.


(3)The power to make an order under subsection (2) above shall be exercisable by statutory instrument subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.

although I'm in no way condoning the way they went about it
K xx

- - - Updated - - -

If that's the case, please delete my membership. It really doesn't matter to me.
I like it here but will just go elsewhere. Pity as I like Amethyst, Kati and yourself.

No need for you to go - you are just as welcome here as everyone else IMO

[wales01man]

Re: Dogs Trust

Don't go Sean remember us men are always wrong according to our other halfs but remember we are always right

[MissFM]

Re: Dogs Trust

Hi I hope someone can help with this question and I hope it is the correct place to post it.

We went to Dogs Trust Harefield to adopt another dog and were shocked by the ignorance and rudeness that was shown to us. Especially towards the children.

My 3 kids ended up in tears over this. The reason being is that they were told the following and although I think its wrong I would like it confirmed before complaining.

Dogs Trust stated that under 16s can not own pets especially dogs. Is this correct?

They also stated that it is illegal for under 16s to walk dogs on a lead even with adults?

They also went on about neutering informing the kids, 2 of which were under 10 that the dogs should be neutered or have medical problems.

Can anyone confirm the 2 questions above also any ideas of how to complain would help.

Normally I would not complain especially as its a charity but upsetting young children simply is wrong.

It seems the confusion has arisen because the Dogs Trust employee has explained their policy on animal adoption in a way that is perhaps too blunt for small children to understand.

Their rules on neutering of adopted animals are indeed in line with the policies of all reputable rescue centres and also consistent with mainstream veterinary opinion on animal welfare - so although not strictly speaking the law of the land such strictures would govern any contract by which they allowed your family to adopt a dog.

All rescued animals have suffered, by definition, a less than ideal start in life and, perhaps unsurprisingly, many of those who care for them have a jaded view of the human race in general.

The neutering policy is not just to avoid further unwanted animals being born but also to ensure that the animal to be rehomed is valued for its own sake rather than a means to an end (eg to produce a litter of cute puppies or to be a commercial breeding machine).

The legal issues raised have been explained above - but are also common sense if the charity takes its responsibilities towards the animals (and their adoptors) seriously.

My point being that if you do wish to complain then I would restrict your complaint to the fact that the operative should have addressed all of the above with you as parents, not with the children (particularly the little ones).

Whether you agree with their policy or not, you won't change it, but you may perhaps encourage them to train their staff in how to deal more kindly and sympathetically with humans - especially young ones.

As you can see, many of us here care passionately about animal welfare and hold strong opinions!

Good luck with finding the right pet to welcome into your family. x