Badly fitted kitchen

[meellis]

Re: Badly fitted kitchen

This is a good example why tradesmen should always communicate with the client and treat concerns correctly. I can see, as a tradesman, the reason behind some of the fitters actions and also the OP problems with the fit. It is by no way near the worst install I have ever seen and to be brutally honest some of the issues highlighted by the photos are common. The gap between the worktop and wall as obviously been cut for the cable and shape of wall but when the tiling has been done the tiles will cover it. The large hole for the plug to go through, its a moulded plug which is pre-attached to the flex so you have to cut a hole bid enough for the plug to fit through. There are faults without doubt but because the fitter and OP have fallen out before any resolutions could be found every minor issue has been made major. I am sure if most of you removed drawers from your kitchen you would find some damage behind them, how often would anybody remove a drawer to look. Depending on the area you are in £700 sounds quite conservative if the worktop with the sink in has been cut with too large a hole in, in the Thames valley where I am there wouldn't be much of that left after there was a days labour costs and new worktop. I would really recommend a thorough estimate from another fitter, contacting Gassafe concerning your issues with the gas leak and not assuming things are incorrect but actually proving them. I understand that you are rightly upset but if a fitter has come to look but hasn't really been committed to pricing it would probably be because there isn't always an easy cost efficient solution to some of your concerns and they have probably been thinking that the work might be more hassle than it is worth to them. For instance the majority of kitchen fitters would use duct tape on extract ducting there is a clue in the name of the tape but also the outlet of an extractor is usually smaller than the ducting and not all extractors come with the right adaptors.

[mickeyboy]

Re: Badly fitted kitchen

the badly fitted work top with the gap ,was his words,( so it covers more of the protruding washer at the front ,the cable could have been put into the wall with a little digging out ,the walls were cemented then replastered to a paint finish and should have been straight ,now i have about half an inch of grout and tiles to cover the gap,regarding the ducting tape ,this was on both ends of the flue ie,on top of the extractor,so this is common practice ? we have decided to get the photographs printed ,get a competent installer for a quote then send to his solicitor , the repair work ,i think possibly it will come to a lot more than £700,,,and if people pay thousands of pounds to have their kitchen fitted and can expect workmanship like that and accept it ,the mind boggles lol,.

[meellis]

Re: Badly fitted kitchen

mickeyboy you have got issues with this install no doubt so don't begin to think I am defending the fitter I have just seen it so often. You are right if people are spending thousands on it you would be right to expect better. I would not know how the costings have been attributed but I know fitters who get paid the same for the install whether it is a £2000 kitchen or £30,000 one. The people who paid £30,000 would expect a better fit but the person who has been paid to fit it wouldn't work any harder than they would on the £2000 kitchen. Like I say I am not defending them but were they registered, liable and expected to do the electrics and what sort of electrician has left an exposed cable especially above worktop height when it should have been chased into the wall and protected. Worktop heights are fairly standard and electrical work especially in kitchens is a registered electricians remit so I have either just given you more ammo to throw at them or they are just trying to work around others. If it was one of my jobs I would be shocked to see an electrician leaving a cable like that, I would be shocked to see any builder/plasterer finish like that if it was above worktop especially if they were going to tile on it anyway. What I am basically saying is if you are going the full legal route make sure you know who was responsible for what, whether they were qualified for these tasks and make sure you have full and professional backed evidence so you don't waste too much time and money on an expensive course of action.

[mickeyboy]

Re: Badly fitted kitchen

mickeyboy you have got issues with this install no doubt so don't begin to think I am defending the fitter I have just seen it so often. You are right if people are spending thousands on it you would be right to expect better. I would not know how the costings have been attributed but I know fitters who get paid the same for the install whether it is a £2000 kitchen or £30,000 one. The people who paid £30,000 would expect a better fit but the person who has been paid to fit it wouldn't work any harder than they would on the £2000 kitchen. Like I say I am not defending them but were they registered, liable and expected to do the electrics and what sort of electrician has left an exposed cable especially above worktop height when it should have been chased into the wall and protected. Worktop heights are fairly standard and electrical work especially in kitchens is a registered electricians remit so I have either just given you more ammo to throw at them or they are just trying to work around others. If it was one of my jobs I would be shocked to see an electrician leaving a cable like that, I would be shocked to see any builder/plasterer finish like that if it was above worktop especially if they were going to tile on it anyway. What I am basically saying is if you are going the full legal route make sure you know who was responsible for what, whether they were qualified for these tasks and make sure you have full and professional backed evidence so you don't waste too much time and money on an expensive course of action.

He works for himself,he was pointed in our direction by the kitchen supplier , and he did the electrics,He employed someone who he has used before ,so he say's to fit the gas hob ,this chap left us with a gas leak ,same again for the tiling and plastering ,someone he used before ,the plumbing ie tap's ,waste ,and so forth was done by himself ,we had 3 leaks ,one he left for the entire two weeks ,as he said he never touched that one ,i had to employ another plumber to come and fix that leak ,I am sorry to keep going on ,but this is still very raw with us ..

[meellis]

Re: Badly fitted kitchen

So as far as the electrics are concerned look into part P of building regulations and requirements for electrical works and ask for proof of his competence in this matter. To alter electrics to a certain degree you need to be able to certify the work and give the client a copy dependent on the work carried out. Look online maybe at the NICEIC and maybe they can advise on an assessment of the works carried out. Do the same with the gas fitter but through Gassafe and again they might come out to inspect the installation. Two professional bodies verdicts on your side will help your case. Have you tried your local trading standards who again might be able to assess the workmanship. I understand it is very raw at the moment but any case you have will not be helped if you are half hearted about it and unprepared.

[meellis]

Re: Badly fitted kitchen

Obviously it depends how far you want to go with this but the more info you can frighten them with the more chance you have of getting a solution before it gets expensive. The initial post you started with didn't really go into the works the fitter was responsible for so it was hard to determine which was there doing and which isn't. I have been in situations before where the client has assumed things were part of the contract and they weren't, I have been in kitchens where the fitter is only there for the dry fit and in these days where clients are cutting costs there are more installs where the fitters are responsible for less but there seems to be a grey area between responsibilities. Did the kitchen fitter employ his tiler and gas fitter direct or did he arrange them and you paid them. Because he arranged them to me states he knew he was there for these tasks and if he paid them then as a contractor he would have certain responsibilities over his subbies and there work. If you paid them direct he might be able to say that you had separate contracts with them be it verbal. The fact that he has instructed a solicitor already to me means he is already versed in the scenario and is maybe hoping to frighten you off. When you contact the solicitor state that you would like to see completion statements for both the gas work and the electrical work and ask if they have any public liability insurance, contractors insurance and maybe any product liability insurance. Some of these things they maybe don't legally have to have, unless they advertise they have them of course, but it will hopefully make them realise the can of worms they could be about to open. I am a gas fitter and plumber by the way which is why I am basing my advice on experience not legal standing. As for the gas meter it is owned and is the responsibility of the gas provider and the gas engineer is responsible for anything after it. Even though it could be physically lifted onto a shelf you might be tampering with a fitting you aren't responsible for as a gas fitter and the isolater before the gas meter is classed as the emergency control valve and as such as to be accessible at all times.

[Kati]

Re: Badly fitted kitchen

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[mickeyboy]

Re: Badly fitted kitchen

Obviously it depends how far you want to go with this but the more info you can frighten them with the more chance you have of getting a solution before it gets expensive. The initial post you started with didn't really go into the works the fitter was responsible for so it was hard to determine which was there doing and which isn't. I have been in situations before where the client has assumed things were part of the contract and they weren't, I have been in kitchens where the fitter is only there for the dry fit and in these days where clients are cutting costs there are more installs where the fitters are responsible for less but there seems to be a grey area between responsibilities. Did the kitchen fitter employ his tiler and gas fitter direct or did he arrange them and you paid them. Because he arranged them to me states he knew he was there for these tasks and if he paid them then as a contractor he would have certain responsibilities over his subbies and there work. If you paid them direct he might be able to say that you had separate contracts with them be it verbal. The fact that he has instructed a solicitor already to me means he is already versed in the scenario and is maybe hoping to frighten you off. When you contact the solicitor state that you would like to see completion statements for both the gas work and the electrical work and ask if they have any public liability insurance, contractors insurance and maybe any product liability insurance. Some of these things they maybe don't legally have to have, unless they advertise they have them of course, but it will hopefully make them realise the can of worms they could be about to open. I am a gas fitter and plumber by the way which is why I am basing my advice on experience not legal standing. As for the gas meter it is owned and is the responsibility of the gas provider and the gas engineer is responsible for anything after it. Even though it could be physically lifted onto a shelf you might be tampering with a fitting you aren't responsible for as a gas fitter and the isolater before the gas meter is classed as the emergency control valve and as such as to be accessible at all times.

We only employed the fitter ,he called in the tilers/plasterer & gasman ,and he paid them ,
Our quote ,
work to be carried out ,
remove existing kitchen ,
disconnect gas supply & install gas hob from oven ,
plaster kitchen wall's to a paint finish,
supply and fit floor and wall tiles as discussed with customer ,,,,,,we chose and bought our own ,for them to fit ,
install electrical supply for double oven ,wasn't needed ,we opted for single oven ,
remove existing sink and install new sink,
install new kitchen ,
all electrical work will be fully certified and gas work safety checked , we have had no paper work regarding safety of the work carried out .or any receipt of the money we paid in cash for .....

[des8]

Re: Badly fitted kitchen

meellis has given you lots of pointers on what should have been done to fit the kitchen to a good standard.
What you need to do now is obtain written confirmation from a third party (another fitter) that the work was not upto that standard.
If it goes to court you have to prove your case.

I wouldn't bother about asking about what insurance cover he carried. If he had any, he should have reported to his insurers, who would be in contact with you.

One other point to remember is that even if you win in court (if it goes that far) you will then have to actually get any damages that are awarded.
Do you think this person actually has the funds to pay up?

[mickeyboy]

Re: Badly fitted kitchen

so i take the photographic evidence to his solicitor ,as he asked to see them ,well what an ignorant person ,he did not view them and said he would pass them on to his client ,and he went on to inform me i was being totally in the wrong about not letting his client back into my property ,and as we haven't followed protocols ,he would be seeking cost's for his client if it goes to court ,i have said it will go to court ,we are in the process of getting an independent report and and will be passing on the cost's also to his client ,he has the photo's in his hands now and he refused to give me a receipt for them ?so i have said i will give him a further 14 days to try and resolve this ,,

[des8]

Re: Badly fitted kitchen

Confirm your meeting and what passed there in writing ("signed for" letter).