Civil Enforcement Limited

[Aidan]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

Yes, I know who was driving the car but my point is that it was not me and all the threads here seem to refer to CEL going for the driver

[Aidan]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

I would be in dispute with CEL if they had sent me any correspondence. the only notifications I have received are from DR+

[CleverClogs]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

How about this?

Dear Numpties,

Your threat of legal action does not bother me in the least, as your stupid Sassenach Law does not apply in Scotland where the Inverurie Garden Centre is situated.

Hence, you can only pursue the driver of the motor car if you want to waste your money and I can prove that I was not driving that vehicle on that day.

I am,under no obligation whatever to name the driver and, without a court order which you will not obtain, I will not name the driver.

Awa' an' bile your heids, ye daft puddins.

Yours Faithfully,

Clever Clogs

[mystery1]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

Ignore them. You're in Scotland and so was the parking. There is no keeper liability up here.

M1

[Aidan]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

How about this?

Dear Numpties,

Your threat of legal action does not bother me in the least, as your stupid Sassenach Law does not apply in Scotland where the Inverurie Garden Centre is situated.

Hence, you can only pursue the driver of the motor car if you want to waste your money and I can prove that I was not driving that vehicle on that day.

I am,under no obligation whatever to name the driver and, without a court order which you will not obtain, I will not name the driver.

Awa' an' bile your heids, ye daft puddins.

Yours Faithfully,

Clever Clogs

I love it LOL

[CleverClogs]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

I believe the above should satisfy the pre-action protocol but, should they be silly enough to try more threats, how about this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Without prejudice save as regards any judge's amusement.

Dear stupid Sassenachs,

I am seated on my loo where, as I squeeze out a jobby, I have your latest silly letter before me.

Soon. your letter will be behind and beneath me.

Yours Faithfully,

Clever Clogs

[bluebottle]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

If the idiots are trying to apply a law that does not apply in another jurisdiction - trying to apply English Law in respect of an alleged incident that occurred under the jurisdiction of Scottish Law - they are stuffed. If they do try to bring proceedings under English Law, which sounds unlikely, then it could be a very costly error of judgement on their part.

[Lhasa Ap So annoyed]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

Hello again all and Happy New Year
Just to keep you posted :
Received CELs response to my POPLA appeal - all 15 pages of it !!!!!
One thing that struck me is that there are numerous photographs of the signage and the car park but no photographs of my car or indeed the driver and the letter states the use of ANPR cameras. Am I right in saying that these cameras do not identify the driver ? My first appeal to CEL was based on the PCN being issued more than 14 days after the alleged offence. This was rejected as it was suggested they are essentially going after the driver. How can they go after the driver if the ANPR cameras do not identify drivers ?
Hopefully none of this will matter and my POPLA appeal will be successful but I have to admit that their POPLA response has got me a little worried.
More than happy to email the letter to any VIP Members who are interested ?
Cheers

[mystery1]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

Hello again all and Happy New Year
Just to keep you posted :
Received CELs response to my POPLA appeal - all 15 pages of it !!!!!
One thing that struck me is that there are numerous photographs of the signage and the car park but no photographs of my car or indeed the driver and the letter states the use of ANPR cameras. Am I right in saying that these cameras do not identify the driver ? My first appeal to CEL was based on the PCN being issued more than 14 days after the alleged offence. This was rejected as it was suggested they are essentially going after the driver. How can they go after the driver if the ANPR cameras do not identify drivers ?
Hopefully none of this will matter and my POPLA appeal will be successful but I have to admit that their POPLA response has got me a little worried.
More than happy to email the letter to any VIP Members who are interested ?
Cheers

My guess is that it's full of wind and piss.

You are safe to post it here. Nobody's going to die and they sent it so they know what it says.

M1

[Lhasa Ap So annoyed]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

Brilliant M1 - LOL !!! I don't feel so worried any more after that
I`ll post it here tomorrow - just want to blank out my details first
Thanks again

[CleverClogs]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

My guess is that it's full of wind and piss.

You do know, don't you, that you are a very bad influence on me?

[Lhasa Ap So annoyed]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

Hi M1
CEL POPLA response attached as promised
(hopefully it's attached)
Cheers

[mystery1]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

I'd add a further point to your appeal.

As the operator has decided to forego PoFA and has produced no evidence of the driver identity the appeal should be allowed.


The appeal in so far should win anyway but that really is a no brainer which has proven successful previously. I'd not be surprised if they bailed out early to avoid the £27 once you add that.

M1

[Lhasa Ap So annoyed]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

Fab - I have emailed POPLA with the additional point - thanks again for all your help and I will continue to keep you posted

[myeash]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

Oh goodness me I am so stressed out. Firstly because I completely forgot my password for this forum and it has taken days to get it reset and because I've received a letter back from CEL (after sending the one M1 suggested and others confirmed they had had success with it) but unfortunately they are not buying it and will not cancel the enforcement (such a lovely choice of words...). Giving the usual blurb about loss of business, clear signage, blah blah.

I have been back to the car park and taken pictures of their signage. The sign at the entrance of the car park simply states that it is a pay and park car park but no phone number is given. There are no T&Cs on this main sign. I found a much, much small sign around the corner giving the phone number and T&Cs which says that payment must be made within 10 minutes of arriving at the car park. My car was stationary for 11mins and 9 secs. The driver did not even leave the car. The driver was my other half and he had our daughter in the car.

Their max payment charge is £4.50. So based on this, this is what I want to write back to them. Do you think this will work:-

I have today (date as above) received your response to representation that you state you are unable to cancel the Enforcement Notice.

I have revisited the car park and have taken several photos of where the vehicle was parked and your signage. The sign as you enter the car park neither gives the phone number to pay for parking nor does it detail any of your regulations or parking charges.

As you will recall from your records the vehicle was parked by the entrance and therefore there were no visible signs from this position which carry your parking charges, phone number or terms and conditions. The driver would have had to leave the car, unattended, to find the much smaller sign which is situated around the corner.

However, I should point out at this stage that the driver informs me they never got out of the car and therefore wasn’t actually parked and was there for only 11 minutes and 9 seconds whilst they attended to their distressed child. I was not the driver at this time.

You state in your letter severe problems of vehicles being parked for long periods of time and occupying valuable space, which is obviously an occupational hazard operating a car park. Do you consider 11 minutes and 9 seconds a long period of time?

As a goodwill gesture and to close this matter I will pay, on behalf of the driver, the maximum Civil Enforcement Ltd charge for this car park, which is £4.50. Your fines in no way represent the potential loss of business for unauthorised parking.

Many thanks.

Get an appeal in to CEL asap. the 28 day deadline is near. This is the easiest and best way to deal with it. They usually will not allow your appeal but should give a popla appeal and a good one such as this is pretty much guaranteed to win.

Send an appeal to CEL such as




Dear Sirs,




I, as registered keeper, wish to invoke your appeals procedure. The driver did not see any signs. In any event the charges are penal and not a genuine pre estimate of loss.




In the event you refuse my appeal please send me a popla code. I am under no statutory obligation to name the driver and will not be doing so.




Yours etc




http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...67&postcount=2 show the winning points at Popla.



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M1