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Vodafone refuse to help

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  • #61
    Good afternoon Amethyst and Slainte

    Again, thank you both for taking the time to lay out in no uncertain terms what is 'possibly' possible and what is probably not. I did ring the court this morning and was 'advised' that as the deadline was on Friday, any documentation submitted today/tomorrow would be at the judge's discretion as to whether or not it is used.

    @ Slainte, it was July 2014 and the only paperwork I remember receiving from Vodafone are letters saying thank you for paying by direct debit. No notification of upgrade or T's & C's.

    Amethyst, I definitely would not be able to pay in full within that time frame and great as my mum is, she has also told me that I need to keep trying to find employment as she is not in a position to help me financially (she is self employed). Your 'tad blunt' message has hit home; I will still submit the witness statement with Slainte's suggestions, using the template and also get an SAR done.

    I know I will end up getting a judgement regardless but due to a lack of income, there's no way I can get around that. This whole fiasco has been a bitter pill to swallow but I will never make that mistake again. No more credit for me. Then again, with a CCJ on my credit file, that's highly unlikely now anyway.

    A.




    Comment


    • #62
      It is

      I'm behind you, don't worry, and there's absolutely no judgment from me, just wanted to be sure you realised that head in the sand just doesn't help … anything else happens like this - you need to be on top of it from the beginning, gives you far more chance of succeeding in a defence.

      Do the witness statement ( examples... http://legalbeagles.info/forums/foru...ess-statement/ )

      Don't rely on the consumer credit act 1974 part - but you need the contract to check the terms and contract period - and point out the parts Slainte has mentioned. They do need to evidence their claim so hopefully the judge will order that at the hearing.

      Start putting it together and post up here for amendment, you're going to miss post today in any event but can email to court this evening to be received in the morning, and post by first class mail tomorrow to the claimant.

      Then see IF you feel you can attend court ( I'd recommend going if you can as it really helps you see the process and find it far less worrying/scary next time ) and if you decide you can't, will help you with a letter informing the court of the non attendance ( which is necessary if you're not just going to be struck out and costs against you for just not showing up on the day ).

      xxxxx
      Common Sense .... if in doubt, use it !

      “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

      Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

      If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

      Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

      Comment


      • #63
        Amethyst, OMG...I did not realise there was a next page (5) and had spent the evening refreshing the same page. Having not seen any new posts, tried to do the witness statement with not much luck (will post up as soon as). Had no idea I could email the stuff so need to get a move on so it gets to them while it's still a.m. and will post the stuff 1st class recorded to Lowells this afternoon.

        I must seem like such an idiot, sorry I've been honest with you so far so won't stop now; really cannot face court, even thinking about it now makes me feel sick. Can I ask you to help me with a non attendance letter please? I do understand why you would recommend it but I just can't.

        I know you are not judging me and again you are right about the head in the sand; look where it got me. Do not want to go through anything like this again.

        Thank you so much x

        Comment


        • #64
          Amethyst, @slainte, this is the amended and amended again draft of what I did last night, using one of the samples from LBs forum. I know it'll probably need a lot more amending but hopefully, I haven't made a complete hash of it.

          A.
          Attached Files

          Comment


          • #65
            Morning Having a read xx
            Common Sense .... if in doubt, use it !

            “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

            Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

            If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

            Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

            Comment


            • #66
              okay, a bit more needed, but it is a really excellent start.... so you've not really said anything about the account so have a read of some changes and adding some more in. You don't need to worry about sound legal.... but you need to get across to the court ( and claimant ) that you really don't know where this amount has come from and how it has been calculated. ( I haven't worried about the numbering as once it's done you can just renumber from the beginning )





              WITNESS STATEMENT
              I, ################ am the defendant in this claim. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge and are as follows:
              I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in the claim which is due to be heard on July, 20th 2018.

              1. On the 29
              th September 2017, I received a claim form from Claimant via the County Court Business Centre, Northampton, for the amount of £768.95.

              2. The sum claimed is denied.

              3. The particulars of claim state that “the defendant entered into an agreement with Vodafone". It is admitted that I entered into an agreement with Vodafone in 2014 for provision of airtime and data mobile telephone services. I do not recall whether there was also credit for purchase of the device.

              4: The Claimant has not disclosed the terms of the agreement and on checking my own records it appears I did not retain a copy. Therefore I require details of how the amount claimed has been calculated. There appears to be a termination charge included in the amount claimed however I am unable to check this amount is correct, or due under the terms of the contract at all. I am unaware whether the contract was fixed for a set period, or what the period was, and thus what, if any, termination charge may have been due on cancellation.

              5. In my records I have notes from an online webchat held on xxxxxxxxxxxx between myself and Vodafone customer services regarding a billing issue. It appears from these notes that xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

              6. xxxxxxxxxxxxx issues with Vodafone as per Slaintes posts xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

              6. The claimant has not about when the alleged default occurred, the degree of default or details of how the amount claimed had built up. The claimant has not provided a breakdown of the sums claimed in their statement of case nor in any following documentation.communication received.


              7: On xxxxx I contacted Vodafone to try and find out further information about the Claimants claim. Vodafone refused xxxxxxxx / did not hold xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. I further sent a Subject access Request to Vodafone directly however xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx

              5. On 16
              th October, 2017 in order to find out more information I made a formal written request in accordance with CPR 31.14. to the Claimants solicitors Lowells, requesting that the Claimant provides copies of all documents mentioned in the statement of case [EXHIBIT A].

              6. I also sent a formal request with a £1 payment pursuant to s.78 of the Consumer Credit Act in the event the amount claimed was for any agreement for purchase of a device. it is my understanding that this would be a regulated agreement.

              6. On 23
              rd October 2017, the Claimants solicitors replied [EXHIBIT B] to my written request without the requested documents.

              7. I then received another letter dated 22
              nd November, 2017 pertaining to the claimants point 5 [EXHIBIT C] which seems to contradict their letter dated 23rd October, 2017.

              8. The Claimant has mentioned the Credit Agreement, the default Notice and the Notice of Assignment in its Statement of Case and yet it has provided none of these documents even though I am entitled to see these documents.


              9. The Claimants case is that I entered into an agreement with Vodafone under account reference #########. I accept that I did have a Vodafone account in 2014 however, the witness statement provided by the Claimant to me of ‘generic T & C’s as per their exhibit (PF1), photocopied calls and texts with payments, as per their exhibit (PF2) does not seem to evidence the amount being claimed.

              13.The ‘reconstituted letters’ mentioned in the claimants point 12, were never received by me. These letters supposedly came from Vodafone directly, yet the letters have no official logo [EXHIBIT D].

              14. I believe it is essential that I am given the opportunity to see a copy of the agreement and terms from the start of the agreement and any amendments made throughout the term of the agreement.

              15: The statement given in the claimants point 18 claims that ‘a delay in obtaining the documents would not put the Defendant in any detriment; I totally disagree. I have been trying to find out the full details on the claimants claim since xxxxxxx 2015 and so far only the generic terms and list of calls/sms messages sent has been provided which does nothing to assist calculate the amount claimed.


              15. I would also like to state that being a lay person, I did seek and receive help from a consumer website. The layout and some legal terminology has been used with express permission from said site to try and find out the details of the claim. This is incapable of being 'plagiarism' as claimed by the claimant.

              16: Once the claimant has evidenced their claim and I am able to check the sums claimed were due and owed to Vodafone I would be happy to arrange instalments, however I find myself in a position where since first hearing from the Claimant over 2 years ago I am no further forward to checking their claims are correct.

              17. The claim is denied.

              Statement of Truth
              Common Sense .... if in doubt, use it !

              “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

              Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

              If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

              Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by amunray View Post
                Amethyst, OMG...I did not realise there was a next page (5) and had spent the evening refreshing the same page. Having not seen any new posts, tried to do the witness statement with not much luck (will post up as soon as). Had no idea I could email the stuff so need to get a move on so it gets to them while it's still a.m. and will post the stuff 1st class recorded to Lowells this afternoon.

                I must seem like such an idiot, sorry I've been honest with you so far so won't stop now; really cannot face court, even thinking about it now makes me feel sick. Can I ask you to help me with a non attendance letter please? I do understand why you would recommend it but I just can't.

                I know you are not judging me and again you are right about the head in the sand; look where it got me. Do not want to go through anything like this again.

                Thank you so much x
                Get the WS sorted then we'll do the non attendance letter afterwards. Trust me I completely understand where you are coming from with regards going to court. It's one of those things that seems terrifying until you do it..... honestly - it's more like going to the Dentist than anything else, but when you get there you don't actually need any fillings or extractions and everyones ridiculously nice.... it's just a process, and if you treat it as an experience, and really a bit of a quite interesting people watching exercise, and know that the consequences of losing really aren't that terrible anyway ( you just set up a payment plan and have the CCJ on your file for six years ) you can do anything

                We can send the non attendance letter and you can change your mind and go along if you want on the day, or not...… it's fine
                Common Sense .... if in doubt, use it !

                “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

                Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

                Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

                Comment


                • #68
                  Amethyst, thank you so much for responding and amending my statement so quickly. I will make those amendments/add ins now and email it off, hopefully before midday. Do I need to use cover pages for the exhibits? if yes, is this okay?

                  In the ######### County Court

                  Claim Number: #########

                  Between: ############# Claimant

                  and

                  Mr. ################## Defendant

                  Exhibit [A]

                  I confirm that this is exhibit [A] as referred to in my witness statement dated 06/0/2018


                  Signature:


                  Printed name:


                  I also just checked the court paper and there is no email address? Found these but wanted to check with you which of the following I should use.

                  Listing: hearings@croydon.countycourt.gsi.gov.uk
                  Filing and records: e-filing@croydon.countycourt.gsi.gov.uk

                  Also, the not attending court letter, is there a sample on the forum I should use?

                  Thanks Amethyst

                  A. x

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    It'll be the e-filing address

                    Once you've sent it try give the court a call and check they have it. Also send a copy (on paper) to the claimant - do special D if you can manage it otherwise 1st class and make sure you get a post receipt.

                    The other letter can wait - you don't want to send it WITH the witness statement so do it separately on Thursday ( to arrive 7 days before) EXAMPLE letter ->>
                    http://legalbeagles.info/forums/foru...vance-at-least


                    and yes, exhibit cover sheet looks fine at the bottom of your witness statement sometimes it's a good idea to say X exhibits attached ( then list them with brief desciption)
                    a) xxxxxxxx
                    b) xxxxxxxx
                    c) xxxxxxxxxxx
                    Common Sense .... if in doubt, use it !

                    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

                    Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                    If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

                    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Right okay brilliant, thank you.

                      Will def call the court, will see if I can do the SD, if I can't stretch to it , I'll do 1st class recorded (going to do that this afternoon).

                      Oh, I see. I will get it typed up today in readiness for Thursday (post or email)?

                      Sounds good to me, will use the tips you've shown re the list and description.

                      Thanking you and the others feels so inadequate...you have been an amazing source of support and guidance for someone who has no one else that they could turn to for help.

                      Thank you (hugs). I will keep you updated on how things go from here.

                      A. x

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Amethyst View Post

                        Get the WS sorted then we'll do the non attendance letter afterwards. Trust me I completely understand where you are coming from with regards going to court. It's one of those things that seems terrifying until you do it..... honestly - it's more like going to the Dentist than anything else, but when you get there you don't actually need any fillings or extractions and everyones ridiculously nice.... it's just a process, and if you treat it as an experience, and really a bit of a quite interesting people watching exercise, and know that the consequences of losing really aren't that terrible anyway ( you just set up a payment plan and have the CCJ on your file for six years ) you can do anything

                        We can send the non attendance letter and you can change your mind and go along if you want on the day, or not...… it's fine


                        You do make me smile, when everything seems so bleak. Who knows, you could be right and maybe I will change my mind before the date arrives, I'll see. I'll let you know.

                        Ax.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
                          okay, a bit more needed, but it is a really excellent start.... so you've not really said anything about the account so have a read of some changes and adding some more in. You don't need to worry about sound legal.... but you need to get across to the court ( and claimant ) that you really don't know where this amount has come from and how it has been calculated. ( I haven't worried about the numbering as once it's done you can just renumber from the beginning )





                          WITNESS STATEMENT
                          I, ################ am the defendant in this claim. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge and are as follows:
                          I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in the claim which is due to be heard on July, 20th 2018.

                          1. On the 29
                          th September 2017, I received a claim form from Claimant via the County Court Business Centre, Northampton, for the amount of £768.95.

                          2. The sum claimed is denied.

                          3. The particulars of claim state that “the defendant entered into an agreement with Vodafone". It is admitted that I entered into an agreement with Vodafone in 2014 for provision of airtime and data mobile telephone services. I do not recall whether there was also credit for purchase of the device.
                          May I suggest amending this to "there was no credit agreement for this device as I have since discovered Vodaphone DO NOT offer contracts with a CCA agreement.

                          4: The Claimant has not disclosed the terms of the agreement and on checking my own records it appears I did not retain a copy. Therefore I require details of how the amount claimed has been calculated. There appears to be a termination charge included in the amount claimed however I am unable to check this amount is correct, or due under the terms of the contract at all. I am unaware whether the contract was fixed for a set period, or what the period was, and thus what, if any, termination charge may have been due on cancellation.

                          5. In my records I have notes from an online webchat held on xxxxxxxxxxxx between myself and Vodafone customer services regarding a billing issue. It appears from these notes that xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

                          6. xxxxxxxxxxxxx issues with Vodafone as per Slaintes posts xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

                          6. The claimant has not about when the alleged default occurred, the degree of default or details of how the amount claimed had built up. The claimant has not provided a breakdown of the sums claimed in their statement of case nor in any following documentation.communication received.


                          7: On xxxxx I contacted Vodafone to try and find out further information about the Claimants claim. Vodafone refused xxxxxxxx / did not hold xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. I further sent a Subject access Request to Vodafone directly however xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx

                          5. On 16
                          th October, 2017 in order to find out more information I made a formal written request in accordance with CPR 31.14. to the Claimants solicitors Lowells, requesting that the Claimant provides copies of all documents mentioned in the statement of case [EXHIBIT A].

                          6. I also sent a formal request with a £1 payment pursuant to s.78 of the Consumer Credit Act in the event the amount claimed was for any agreement for purchase of a device. it is my understanding that this would be a regulated agreement.
                          May I also suggest reiterating here, "It has proved fruitless as I have learnt Vodaphone do not offer contracts which are subject to a CCA agreement. I have checked this both online and with representatives of the company."

                          6. On 23
                          rd October 2017, the Claimants solicitors replied [EXHIBIT B] to my written request without the requested documents.

                          7. I then received another letter dated 22
                          nd November, 2017 pertaining to the claimants point 5 [EXHIBIT C] which seems to contradict their letter dated 23rd October, 2017.

                          8. The Claimant has mentioned the Credit Agreement, the default Notice and the Notice of Assignment in its Statement of Case and yet it has provided none of these documents even though I am entitled to see these documents.

                          Again, I would include the fact that this is false due to Vodaphone having no CCA contracts, it sounds like you are repeating yourself but might buy you time!

                          9. The Claimants case is that I entered into an agreement with Vodafone under account reference #########. I accept that I did have a Vodafone account in 2014 however, the witness statement provided by the Claimant to me of ‘generic T & C’s as per their exhibit (PF1), photocopied calls and texts with payments, as per their exhibit (PF2) does not seem to evidence the amount being claimed.

                          13.The ‘reconstituted letters’ mentioned in the claimants point 12, were never received by me. These letters supposedly came from Vodafone directly, yet the letters have no official logo [EXHIBIT D].

                          14. I believe it is essential that I am given the opportunity to see a copy of the agreement and terms from the start of the agreement and any amendments made throughout the term of the agreement.

                          15: The statement given in the claimants point 18 claims that ‘a delay in obtaining the documents would not put the Defendant in any detriment; I totally disagree. I have been trying to find out the full details on the claimants claim since xxxxxxx 2015 and so far only the generic terms and list of calls/sms messages sent has been provided which does nothing to assist calculate the amount claimed.


                          15. I would also like to state that being a lay person, I did seek and receive help from a consumer website. The layout and some legal terminology has been used with express permission from said site to try and find out the details of the claim. This is incapable of being 'plagiarism' as claimed by the claimant.

                          16: Once the claimant has evidenced their claim and I am able to check the sums claimed were due and owed to Vodafone I would be happy to arrange instalments, however I find myself in a position where since first hearing from the Claimant over 2 years ago I am no further forward to checking their claims are correct.

                          17. The claim is denied.

                          Statement of Truth
                          My suggestions are as always in green.

                          Hope they help a bit,
                          Those who don't believe in Magic will never find it! - Roald Dahl

                          Tears are not a sign of weakness they are a sign of having been too strong too long! - Unknown

                          You are not disabled by your disability but made able by your abilities. - Oscar Pistorius

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Good evening Slainte

                            Thanks again for your further suggestions but after Amethyst did the amendments on my draft this afternoon, I submitted it via email as advised and also went and posted the hard copy off to the court and to the claimant; both by 1st class recorded.

                            Would have been good to get the parts about learning that Vodafone do not offer contracts etc...oh well. I did however add some of the tips you gave me in your earlier post.

                            Thanks again and I will make sure I let you know the outcome.

                            A.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Keep that in your arsenal for the court!

                              When you are asked about it, state that in the time between submitting the WS and the court date this information has come to light.

                              I can't promise but it might throw a spanner in the works
                              Those who don't believe in Magic will never find it! - Roald Dahl

                              Tears are not a sign of weakness they are a sign of having been too strong too long! - Unknown

                              You are not disabled by your disability but made able by your abilities. - Oscar Pistorius

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Thank you Slainte, will do

                                Comment

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