** LOST ** Vodafone refuse to help

[amunray]

Hi all, sitting at my PC about to start scanning and editing the paperwork to upload. Something made me double check the court paper and with a heavy heart, I have to say I have totally messed up - again. The court date is actually the 20th of July and I swear I thought witness statements had to be sent to the court and the other party a week beforehand not 2 weeks. It looks as though my oversight has cost me dearly (court fees etc).

I am so sorry to have wasted the time of everyone who has helped me since this began. I would not have got this far without you.

Thank you

A.

[amunray]

Me again...

Decided that even though I am probably too late, I may as well still submit everything. The court may well not look at it and just throw it out but want to try anyway. Do you think it's worth me trying?

Also, tried uploading the Lowells stuff but each time it says I have exceed the size limit. I have tried resizing but still won't let me upload. Any help on that would be great as well.

Sorry to keep messing you about.

A.

[amunray]

Had to put them in a zip file, couldn't think of any other way sorry.

A.

[amunray]

Evening all

Ok, this is the first of the last lot...I remember Amethyst advising me to dig out anything I could find re communicating with Vodafone, even emails, so here they are. I found some emails of transcripts I had with Vodafones web chat customer service staff. The last transcript was the reason I had no faith left in them to help me out, so buried my head in the sand and here we are.

The last letter posted is a letter that seems to contradict one of the letters they have included in their defence I think? Or maybe not...

This is all I have, as I said previously, I have probably blown it now but as I'd started, I decided to finish. I am ready for whatever you tell me as I have no one else to turn to.

Thanks again

A.

[amunray]

[Amethyst]

Evening, this is still dragging on then.... I'll have a read back xxx

[Amethyst]

If the hearing is 20th July, if you can get something in for Monday you might be okay. Did you receive a witness statement from the other side ? Okay ignore that, yes you have - just reading through the zip files xx

[Amethyst]

Okay. They have provided copies of statements ( lists of calls/texts ) but no copy of the contract or agreement ( regardless of the CCA being applicable or not, they are claiming a £450 odd 'termination' fee and saying you were in a X ? month contract, but haven't provided anything but generic terms. There are a multitude of packages and costs across different phone contracts - does the generic agreement say the term of the contract or the monthly payment amount, data limits, call costs and so on ?

Did they ever allow the additional minutes used ( re the webchat ) to be paid in instalments or was that when you ditched the account ? There's also their offer to add 300 extra minutes for £2.50 etc, which isn't detailed anywhere or broken down in the billing ( is the billing just a list of calls/texts? ) You didn't seem to dispute you'd used those extra minutes and been charged from them, just asked for warning if you were near that position again...so not really a dispute (re an acknowlegdement that things went over the plan and arranging to get things back up and running and the billing paid up)

If you 'let it run' it will result in a CCJ and costs. So you need to decide whether to fight it or settle it... yu can still negotiate settlement with them, at a monthly amount that you can afford ( I know things are bloody tight atm but IF you don't want to proceed through court then negotiating would at least remove any additional costs risk of attendance at the hearing - it seems they are claiming a strike out as your defence is reliant on the CCA )
Or change your defence to an admission and offer to pay through the court, based on your income/expenditure and have the CCJ but payments set by the court.

I don't think just giving up and hiding from it is a good idea ( nor do you really ) but you need to decide if you think you do have an argument that the debt with VF was wrong originally and challenge it, or accept it was right and things just got on top of you for a bit and you need to sort out getting it paid in someway.

[amunray]

Good morning Amethyst

Just read through your reply and always, you cover every little detail. I was never given the opportunity to pay in instalments as they said they could not arrange that as per their managers instructions. I was given an extra 300 minutes free of charge but I was never sent a breakdown by Lowells, just copies of my calls and texts as you mentioned.

I finally shared everything with my mum and showed her your last post. I got a good old rollicking and she completely agrees with your last paragraph. TBH, so do I.

I have to take responsibility for the debt but as I am still unemployed (didn't get the job I went for), I can only afford the barest minimum per month. I remember the first time I called Lowells (I know, no calls, letters only), they refused my offer of £1-2 per month, hence ostrich mode.

How should I go about negotiating a repayment plan with Lowells Amethyst? Or am I better off letting a judge arrange payments? If it is through a CCJ, will I still have to attend court? Please say I don't...

Thank you again Amethyst, still dreading it all but you have helped calm my fears somewhat.

I will of course heed any further advice you have for me re Lowells, court, CCJ etc.

A.

[slainte caragh]

having a read through the web chat.... slightly confused. Will post up a list of queries which MAY (not promising) help your defence but only Vodaphone can answer them.. and you might get away with saying you were waiting for the info.

callie

[slainte caragh]

#1 The webchat states you were charged "roaming rates" - What country were these calls made in and do they have proof?
Ask for a copy of their ABS report showing the IMEI number of the phone being used overseas. Roaming denotes international calls.

#2 What date did they tell you that you had upgraded? This isn't an upgrade, it's a tariff transfer and if they say it was an upgrade not a leg to stand on. No T&Cs being explained, no offer to see T&Cs, no formal THIS WILL RENEW YOUR CONTRACT. not worth the paper it was written on. A reminder that under their own T&C you can increase the tariff at any time or lower the tariff after 9 months might help.. I will see if I can find a copy of a standard t&cs to be produced to show that unless they can prove you upgraded, you aint in contract.

Have you sent in a SAR to Vodaphone for your full account notes? I'm not seeing any upgrade notes at all here ?

I would again suggest Webchat as you can print out the chats and hand the court the documents saying "Well., this is where I stand and the claimant hasn't proved I was in contract...."

Oh and if the "roaming" calls were made in the UK... they have been wrongly charged.. dispute the lot!!

Roaming is the term for calls made out of the UK and unless you are in NI and very near the border (or on a channel island) you should NOT be charged!

Not sure for the IOM but I can sure as hell find out!

[amunray]

Hi Slainte, thanks for responding to my issue with so many possible avenues.

I definitely did not use the phone abroad. Have not left the UK since 2009.

I did not send a SAR to Vodafone as when I contacted them after the last web chat they wanted nothing to do with me.

They refused to help then; doubt they will be any more forthcoming now.

I think due to the court date looming, I need to either get a witness statement done or negotiate a payment plan. The deadline for submitting papers was yesterday but Amethyst said I may be able to do that on Monday; if I decide to 'fight' but, I think negotiating a repayment plan may be the way? It will be a pittance as I have no income.

My head is spinning now...so confused.

A..

[slainte caragh]

I am not an expert in witness statements my love, Amethyst des8 or R0b might be better at that then me, so what I suggest is I will list a few definative "no nos" from a professional p.o.v and perhaps they can ask for time to gain the info you need or even better have everything thrown out for lack of information and obstruction.

ok Vodaphone have screwed up by....


1: Roaming calls - phone has never left the UK so how were the roaming calls achieved ( amunray ask for those call records so you can prove you are investigating this)

2: Vodaphone have failed to comply with a request for information and proof. You have only recently found out about an SAR request and Vodaphone never mentioned it!

3: You are told this is for an upgrade, however there is no proof you were ever still in contract and you have had an "expert" read the notes you have, this is a non binding tariff transfer and therefore no termination fees should be added.. especially as you agreed to pay MORE for your line rental.

4: Vodaphone flatly refused you a payment plan until AFTER your account defaulted, you had tried to set this up and pay additionally but they would not agree an amount (as shows in your webchat records. From a professional side- if I had a customer with large arrears I would speak to Credit Control and suggested the customer made a card payment per month of x on top of their bill. therefore it got paid and nothing changed.


EDIT: You state in your original post, you upgraded in July... which July are we talking about?
If we are talking within the last 6 years then you my friend are being lied to!! All contract records are kept for 6 years before they are archived for a further 3 years then securely destroyed! If this is the case this is blatant obstruction!

[Amethyst]

Send another SAR off to Vodafone... it can't hurt, it might not help in time, but it can't hurt and you can put in your witness statement you are awaiting that information.

To proceed with defending the case you will have to go to court - you COULD tell court you won't be attending and rely only on your witness statement, but tbh then the otherside will attend and it is highly likely you would lose ( unless it goes to a really good judge who hates Lowell ( they exist!) …. , I suspect they would ask for a forthwith judgment ( payment in full within 14/28 days )….. you'd then have to apply to the court for 'redetermination' and submit income and expenditure details for the court to set an instalment rate - AND you will have a CCJ on your file for 6 years. If you go to court you can argue your case and if it looks like going against you you can ask the judge to order instalments there and then ( take your income expenditure sheet with you ) … which will save prolonging it to redetermination and the £50 court fee to apply.

Slainte has picked up on some issues which could raise more questions over the debt …. and potentially get things put off for time to obtain further information or an order for Lowell to provide further documentation.... but at this late stage it is winging it a bit, it should have been dealt with months ago, and it is more likely you're going to get a judgment against you than not ( unfair as it may be )… if you don't want to go to court to end up with your credit file being burgered for 6 years you will have to negotiate settlement - is it something your mum could help you with ? ( £50 a month for just over a year is more likely to be accepted to keep this away from a judgment - you could get a Tomlin Order ( consent order) agreed with Lowell to put the claim on hold and cancel the hearing while payments are made ( but if you mucked up payments you'd get a judgment at that point).

To me it doesn't seem to be a big enough argument against the debt to win outright, and doesn't seem to be a big enough debt to risk cocking up your finances for the next 6 years.

I am being a tad blunt worse case scenario for you.... if you want to proceed defending you will have to pull your finger out to get this WS sorted, and be ready to go to the hearing. Kick ass time I'm afraid.

[slainte caragh]

it might be worth adding to your witness statement that you have only just found out information you have been given is incorrect.. I would definately put in that you have been obstructed in defending yourself.

Vodaphone DO have this information!! If there is any contract, you need them to prove it!

They also say you have recieved notification of the upgrade and full t&cs, did you?