Cross country refuse claim

[mwesty1]

Hi guys,

I’m writing this in hope more than anything else as after over a month of backward and forwards with a cross country train representative I have got a response l feel was a little “screw you” response.
i recently was on a train journey which l take every week due to working away. The station (Bristol temple meads) which is a busy train station was closed on this day. A lot of passengers was transferred to other routes and diversions to get to our destinations. I was on a train that was particularly busy, so I stored my case in the storage provided and managed to get a seat. On getting half way along the journey out carriage had a wheelchair area which as the train was so busy was being used for cases and pushchairs as the storage provided was full. After the attendant shouted that the area was to be cleared and the train behind so full many was not moved so the attendant took it upon himself to move everyone’s cases himself! Forcing and shoving cases into a space which was already full and in some cases making it dangerous.
It wasn’t till I had reached my destination that me and a fellow passenger who had put our luggage correctly into storage found we both had damage to our cases. His handle and foot stand was broken and my hard case had been forced that hard had cracked and dented. We both found an attendant (not the one who moved luggage) and was told to take pictures and report it online as there was nothing he could do. As we was just about to pull into station we didn’t have much choice. When l got to accommodation l found inside damage to my tablet screen had cracked also as well as the damage to the case. I took pictures of it all and did as requested and made a complaint. The response I got back has been they have got in touch with the member of staff and he cannot temper any of the situation reported and as such without me having evidence of him doing this and him not admitting it was told “ you are not going to get the response or outcome you are expecting or hope for as you cannot prove to me we did this damage, I would suggest you use your own house insurance to claim for these items! “
now l just feel that a bit of an injustice as why should my premiums go up and I have to go through a claim on my house insurance for cross country’s staff actions!
unless he admits to forcing cases and luggage into a space which does not have any room which of course he isn’t going to because he would more than likely face disciplinary action for making the coach dangerous then p don’t have a leg to stand on and lm going to have to suffer the loses financially and hassle on my own interest ?

is this correct or is there anything else l can do or turn to for help and advice


thanks in advance

mike

[jaguarsuk]

Hi

Were you on one of their Voyager Class 221 trains? (picture of one here if you don't know: http://s374444733.websitehome.co.uk/...ound/index.htm )

If so these have CCTV both in the vestibules and the carriages, CC won't want to download it as the trains are owned by a ROSCO (a leasing company) and maintained by Alstom. Cross Country will have to pay I believe it's about £300 to get the footage and so are fobbing you off.

Unfortunately for CC the Data Protection Act and the coming Global Data Protection Regulations also cover CCTV. You have the right to see any data including CCTV footage that anyone holds on you and they are obliged to provide a copy. Now you could do the request now which will cost you a £10 Statutory Fee and there's a Subject Access Request Letter guide to help you.

Alternatively if you are able to wait 16 days then on 25th May when GDPR comes in requests are free.

Request CCTV from on board the train between the time you got on and time you go off. If you know which coach you were in tell them as then it speeds things up a bit. Once you have the CCTV then you'll have proof the employee has lied to the complaint team and as such they should be covering your losses for damages, plus a little extra given their employee lied to try to deprive you of it.

They are supposed to blur the faces of everyone other than you, but even if they do blur the employees face it will still show them placing the cases in the storage racks contrary to what they have told them.

Even submitting the request via whom has been emailing you might prompt them to take a view that paying you out is less than paying for the CCTV footage and offer you a "Gesture of Goodwill."

[mwesty1]

Afternoon,

yes it was indeed deed one of these trains l used and l will be able to notify them which coach as only 1 has wheelchair acces so they will know which coach that will be. I will send a request for this now and wait for a reply.
many thanks for your reply and help

mike

[jaguarsuk]

Afternoon,

yes it was indeed deed one of these trains l used and l will be able to notify them which coach as only 1 has wheelchair acces so they will know which coach that will be. I will send a request for this now and wait for a reply.
many thanks for your reply and help

mike

No Problem,

Have a look at this: https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk...ating_plan.pdf

Are you sure it was the disabled coach? Could it have been D where the bikes are?

I ask as there doesn't appear to be a luggage storage rack in coach A next to the disabled space.

[mwesty1]

Yes it would be there standard coach F or as underneath coach D so you can see how little the luggage is compared to other coaches and then the space used for the wheelchair all of that forced in


mike

[jaguarsuk]

Yes it would be there standard coach F or as underneath coach D so you can see how little the luggage is compared to other coaches and then the space used for the wheelchair all of that forced in


mike

Apologies I missed the one in F, should have realised A leads because it's 1st class. d'oh

Good luck with sorting it all out and if after CCTV they still refuse come back as once you have evidence of the damage being caused by their employee you have legal options.

[mwesty1]

Morning,

Well l didn’t get a reply l got a phone call straight away this morning after I sent an email explaining some points you suggested.
The manager has said he cannot remember or has no recollection of this situation at all, I have been told on this train there is NO cctv cameras on there trains apart from the bike racks as this used to be the canteen area and they kept them. So no cameras covering the carriages at all, she also stated that the train is leased off bombardier and they would confirm the fact no cctv footage on board.
Ahe has now asked for a ticket barcodes so she can confirm we have the right train and train manager but said “l seem to be clouding the water by taking advice from a 3rd party about the trains they actually own”

any advice ?

mike

[jaguarsuk]

Morning,

Well l didn’t get a reply l got a phone call straight away this morning after I sent an email explaining some points you suggested.
The manager has said he cannot remember or has no recollection of this situation at all, I have been told on this train there is NO cctv cameras on there trains apart from the bike racks as this used to be the canteen area and they kept them. So no cameras covering the carriages at all, she also stated that the train is leased off bombardier and they would confirm the fact no cctv footage on board.
Ahe has now asked for a ticket barcodes so she can confirm we have the right train and train manager but said “l seem to be clouding the water by taking advice from a 3rd party about the trains they actually own”

any advice ?

mike

Nobody advised you they own them, so she's just trying to be narky as you're not fobbing off as they'd wish.

Go back to her and inform her that Bombardier built the trains, but they're owned by Beacon Rail and ask for the train number, it begins 221 and is 6 digits long. You may then contact Beacon Rail to confirm if that is indeed the case regards the CCTV if you wish?

Alternatively when you next make a trip (as you said you do it regularly) you could have a look in coach F. Nothing better than the mark 1 eyeball to satisfy yourself.

I would also point out that you are entitled to take advice of any kind, including legal from whom you choose and are doing so due to their obstructive nature.

Also, ask them if there was a crew change during the journey as cross country change crews at various points. If you whether they have spoken to both sets of crew and if not the other members of staff as you approached one of them to initially to complain before being referred to their department?

Also, ask them to provide CCTV from the station you got off at if it isn't on this list: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/commun.../our-stations/

You can then Subject Access Request Letter Network Rail to show the case in good condition when boarding at Bristol Temple Meads and use their footage to show it was damaged when left.

Also next time on the train go to the luggage rack and see if there is a sign about luggage being left at own risk and them not accepting responsibility for damage. The Google images I can find don't show any, but it's best to make sure. Oh and take a photo.

Once you have the CCTV and that they can't wriggle out of responsibility for the damage you can go to: https://www.transportfocus.org.uk/ad...il-complaints/

[mwesty1]

Afternoon,

thank you you so much for replying. Yes I could tell on the phone she was certainly a bit edgy as if she wouldn’t of thought l would of had a replied back. She also said now that the “use your house insurance” quote was just advice to get my property replaced !
I do think she might be looking at this complaint a bit more serious now.
i can confirm as l did check also that there is not any labels or signs in any luggage area to say that things are left at customers own risk. There is a sign however saying to use these areas if you have a case or larger bag!

i will be making the journey home tomorrow so will check and see if there is any cctv signs and indeed ask the staff on train also

mike

[jaguarsuk]

Afternoon,

thank you you so much for replying. Yes I could tell on the phone she was certainly a bit edgy as if she wouldn’t of thought l would of had a replied back. She also said now that the “use your house insurance” quote was just advice to get my property replaced !
I do think she might be looking at this complaint a bit more serious now.
i can confirm as l did check also that there is not any labels or signs in any luggage area to say that things are left at customers own risk. There is a sign however saying to use these areas if you have a case or larger bag!

i will be making the journey home tomorrow so will check and see if there is any cctv signs and indeed ask the staff on train also

mike

Take a photos of the luggage rack signage. Take a pic of it far enough away to get the coach number and the whole rack in the pic and then take a pic of the signage closer to be able to read it. If there is CCTV in the vestibule outside take a pic of that as well as if there's any in the carriage.

It might be the case that a camera outside the coach in the vestibule faces the doors which are glass and picked up the incident. And the photos of the rack are for if you have to issue a claim in court to resolve this.

Why should you have to pay £80 to your insurer and then increased premiums because someone in their employment decided to move your luggage and damaged it in the process. They can claim off their insurance, how about that?

[mwesty1]

Just an update, it’s been 7 days now and no reply. The last response l had was it is “highly unlikely” that I will get in touch with the manager of that train you was on and therefore have no answer or satisfactory to yourself outcome of this case. I will however try once more to see if I can find the other train members and see if they can shed any light on the issue

[jaguarsuk]

Just an update, it’s been 7 days now and no reply. The last response l had was it is “highly unlikely” that I will get in touch with the manager of that train you was on and therefore have no answer or satisfactory to yourself outcome of this case. I will however try once more to see if I can find the other train members and see if they can shed any light on the issue

I would simply email and ask for an update?

[mwesty1]

Good evening,

After chasing an update I have received one today, and as per predicted the manager of the train cannot recall any situation like this, cannot remember any incidents involving luggage overhaul and therefore I would struggle to even prove that the member of staff committed any wrong doing and certainly even with cctv footage of me boarding and leaving the train prove that it was anyone except myself or another passenger that caused the damage.

The only thing l can now think of is the liability side of things ?? Nowhere on that train is there any “luggage left at owners risk” or any damage or loss will be customer responsibility. Without these signs does that not mean as a customer with a ticket who have signs advising to use these areas not covered by such things even without having to show actual evidence ! I’m not sure apart from recording a member of staff doing this how anyone could prove a claim with what they are saying!

im at a loss

mike

[jaguarsuk]

The problem you have is the proof of whom caused the damage as the National Rail Conditions of Carriage say the following about their liabilities on page 23

A Train Company will only be liable for any loss or damage to luggage, articles, animals or cycles in its trains or on its premises if the loss or damage was caused by the fault of a Train Company or a Rail Service Company staff or agents. A Train Company’s liability in respect of any item will not exceed,£1500 or the item’s value, whichever is lower

I don't know what else to suggest if I'm honest, I know for a fact their staff move luggage and while their staff deny it there's little else you can do in the absence of proof to the contrary.