*** WON WON WON *** AlexY v BPS ***WON WON WON ***

[mystery1]

Re: *** AlexY v BPS - HEARING 7th May

You should ask the court to strike out the claim as you were not notified, as required by the rules, 7 days beforehand. (were the court or was it late ?)

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...es/part27#27.9

It should also be included in any submissions for unreasonable behaviour and extra costs http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...s/part27#27.14 (also include if they failed to send pre action letters etc)

(g) such further costs as the court may assess by the summary procedure and order to be paid by a party who has behaved unreasonably

If you are lucky enough to get that it's £19 per hour plus postage, printing, travel, parking etc. Have your list ready.

M1

[AlexYates]

Re: *** AlexY v BPS - HEARING 7th May

Ooh. That does sound good. 2 days off work (one for prep and one to attend) equals 2 days lost earnings and about 8 per day spent on this. Also a few hours research when I got the various court letters and an hour speaking to a solicitor. I think it would add up to at least 20 or 30 hrs and that's a conservative guess. Which equals a tonne of money which would be just lovely.

What is the best and most realistic way to approach this given my case is tomorrow morning at 11am?

Also, [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION], please can you send me the emails etc we talked about earlier today before first thing tomorrow so that I have a chance to print them out before going to the court?

[Amethyst]

Re: *** AlexY v BPS - HEARING 7th May

These are the two HMPO letters - the one from Kevin Walsh is the one included in your bundle witness statement from Richard Howard - the other is the one that they have published on their website. We haven't been able to get confirmation that both or either are real / false, but that they are identical in wording and references yet dated a month apart and from different people brings that into doubt.

[Amethyst]

Re: *** AlexY v BPS - HEARING 7th May

On Queen of Hearts thread we have posted her Skeleton Argument which brings up a number of issues with RH's witness statement so have a read of that http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...962#post539962

Breakdown of 'Services Delivered'

Use of online booking form
The Claimant's witness statement claims that ''The defendant visited our third party website www.BritishPassportServices.co.uk on 6 October 2014 and decided that they wanted to take out our Appointment Booking Package''. This is not the case. The Defendant did not require any services from the Claimant, she simply wanted to apply to Her Majesty's Passport Office for her passport. She only decided to book an appointment on the advice given during her initial phone call to the Claimant when they misrepresented themselves at the official passport office and informed her this was how to go about renewal of her passport. The Defendant now understands that in order for her to obtain a new passport no appointment was necessary.
Booking the Passport Office Appointment
The Defendant now understands that the information required to actually book an appointment on the official Passport Advice Line is only an individual's name and mobile telephone number. The rest of the information requested by the Claimant on their online booking form is unnecessary and superfluous.
Letter, SMS and Email Confirmation
This 'service' was unnecessary as it is the HM Passport Office that send a text message to confirm appointments. Notwithstanding the Defendant did not require an appointment.
Document Checking Service
As above this is 'service' was unnecessary. In any event the information provided by the Defendant is not entered into any form. It is apparent from the Defendant's investigations that the Claimant simply receives the completed form then telephones the official Passport Advice Line on 0300 222 0000 and pretends to be the Defendant, or a colleague/partner of the Defendant, in order to secure an appointment.
Directions to Passport Office
As above this is 'service' was unnecessary. The Defendant did not request, require or have any knowledge that she was ‘purchasing’ any such service. She has a sat nav and is quite capable of searching on Google Maps for her own directions.
Queue Jumping Membership
Once again this 'service' was not requested, required or provided. On investigating this ‘service’ further it appears that customers use appointments cancelled by other BPS customers. The Claimant's terms & conditions for this 'service' require the customer to lie about who made the appointment and conceal their identity at the Passport Office in order to gain access to the appointment slot.
Passport Application Form Posted
No passport application form was required from the Claimant nor was one received.
In summary none of the above or any other services were required and/or received.

[Amethyst]

Re: *** AlexY v BPS - HEARING 7th May

Ooh. That does sound good. 2 days off work (one for prep and one to attend) equals 2 days lost earnings and about 8 per day spent on this. Also a few hours research when I got the various court letters and an hour speaking to a solicitor. I think it would add up to at least 20 or 30 hrs and that's a conservative guess. Which equals a tonne of money which would be just lovely.

What is the best and most realistic way to approach this given my case is tomorrow morning at 11am?

a tonne of money isn't going to happen but you could claim costs up to two thirds of what a lawyer would have cost to run the case for you. More likely is that you'd be awarded your basic costs, day off work for the hearing, parking etc - about £95 - £125. However if you can argue unreasonable behaviour you might be able to ask for more for your prep time etc

so

Unreasonable Costs and Costs Schedules
In most types of cases parties prepare a detailed “Schedule of Costs”, setting out all the costs and expenses that have been incurred whilst preparing the case. The judge will refer to this when deciding what to do about costs. Costs schedules are not usually relevant in the small claims court because of the restrictions on the costs that can be recovered.

Whilst an unreasonable costs order is to some extent punitive, the party who has behaved unreasonably is only ever likely to be ordered to pay costs actually incurred by the other side – not an additional penalty amount. For this reason it may be worth compiling a schedule of all costs incurred in preparing the case. If a judge does make an unreasonable costs order he can use the schedule as a guide.

What Constitutes Unreasonable Behaviour?
The Civil Procedure Rules do not contain a definition of “unreasonable behaviour”. It will, therefore, be up to the judge hearing the case to decide whether he thinks a party has behaved unreasonably; different judges have different views on the subject.

Examples of behaviour that a judge may consider to be unreasonable:

Defending a case throughout but failing to attend the final hearing, without any explanation;
Pursuing a case that is purely speculative and cannot be supported by the evidence;
A complete refusal by a party to respond to correspondence or to show any interest in negotiating followed by a failure to attend the final hearing;
Making up a defence or pursuing a dishonest claim;
A last minute request for an adjournment purely because a party has failed to prepare their case;
Persistent failure to comply with orders of the court to correct procedural defects;
Giving oral, or other, evidence at a hearing which contradicts a witness statement previously supplied to support the case.

In deciding whether a party has behaved unreasonably the judge may have regard to the relative financial positions and legal knowledge of the parties. The judge may also take into account the party’s behaviour before the claim was issued as well as during the court proceedings.

LIP costs are £19 an hour.

Ann's case we've done this - it's not formal request or application it was just an added note, and we don't know if its worked....and this was being asked for as well as standard costs for the hearing (travel/parking etc) so just as idea of what I think is reasonable costs wise... if you swing in with 30 hours research @ £19 an hour you'd just get his back up. What I'd do is write down the time it has taken and any costs in getting to this point of the claim and have it to hand if you win and start discussing costs for the day. It is more likely you'll get travel/half day off work though. Especially as RH has informed the court he won't be attending in advance and has submitted his WS etc in time.

COSTS SCHEDULE
Defence 1 Hour £19/hr £19.00
Witness Statement 6 Hours £19/hr £114.00
Skeleton Arguments 4 Hours £19/hr £76.00
Postage/Printing £25.00
Total £234

[Amethyst]

Re: *** AlexY v BPS - has entered defence

Main Arguments then

You believed you were dealing with the official route to renew your passport

You believed the £117.60 was the cost of the passport renewal

The form you completed you believed to be your passport application and your signature for your passport

You did not intend to contract with BPS, you were mislead into signing a contract with BPS for services you did not require or know about ( such as a google map link to find the passport office)

All you wanted to do was book an appointment at the HMPO to renew your passport, this is what you thought you were doing.

These bits of your WS demonstrate that you were misled;

19. I immediately searched the internet for a telephone number for the passport office and this time found the right details. I called Peterborough Passport Office directly to check if the appointment had been made and to ask them about the state of the payment. I explained that I had completed the online form and attempted to make payment but it had failed.
20. The Passport Office confirmed that an appointment had been booked for me but that I would need to make a payment of £128 directly to the passport office when I attended for my appointment for the passport.
21. They also confirmed that the Passport Office would not ask for payment online and that I may have been victim of a scam. I was advised not to pay British Passport Services.

You cancelled as soon as you knew you had been misled, yet they continued to provide ''services''.

Now I don't actually have a copy of your defence so I don't know what legal arguments you have used in addition to your Witness Statement, if any ?


Also have a quick read of http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...788#post461788 if you've not done a small claims hearing before - hopefully remove some nerves xx

Take your Witness Statement with you so you can refer to it. Any documents you take that you haven't already submitted might be disallowed - but just in case he allows them then take 3 copies. I don't think there is really anything extra you need to take, that second HMPO letter might be handy to have as it draws doubt over the authenticity although you can't say out and out it is invented just raise the question.

Seems the first question the judge will ask is ' Did you receive the service ' - I would say No and then explain why not, rather than saying Yes but....

[AlexYates]

Re: *** AlexY v BPS - HEARING 7th May

These are the two HMPO letters - the one from Kevin Walsh is the one included in your bundle witness statement from Richard Howard - the other is the one that they have published on their website. We haven't been able to get confirmation that both or either are real / false, but that they are identical in wording and references yet dated a month apart and from different people brings that into doubt.

Please can you send me the link to where they publish this letter on their website?

Thank you

[Amethyst]

Re: *** AlexY v BPS - HEARING 7th May

Please can you send me the link to where they publish this letter on their website?

Thank you

http://britishpassportservices.co.uk...ion.pdf?ef42b4 It's a pdf download I'll find the page the link is printed on.

[Amethyst]

Re: *** AlexY v BPS - HEARING 7th May

Here - http://www.britishpassportservices.c...test-news.html it's the found here link

Rogue Agents at Her Majesty’s Passport Office
Whilst Her Majesty’s Passport Office has made it clear that third party websites are lawful (letter here) and that anyone who has a dispute with one should contact the website directly and read the terms and conditions on the site we have found that there are some rogue agents at 7 regional Passports Offices who are providing unhelpful and inaccurate information to consumers. We have even been told some rogue agents are encouraging consumers to commit an act of Criminal Fraud by advising them to contact their bank and deceive them into believing that no service has been provided by the third party site and so under the Consumer Credit Act demand that the funds be returned to their credit card even when the service has been provided.
Other consumers have been asked to sign a book logging a complaint against a third party website (even when the customer is perfectly happy with the service they received) and to ignore payment requests from the company (if the consumer has yet to settle their invoice). One example of a rogue agent telling a customer that there were “scammed” lead to an internal investigation by the Liverpool Passport Office which resulted in the agent who defamed our company & Her Majesty’s Passport Office issuing a formal apology found here >>>
It is no wonder that some customers feel like they are doing the right thing when a Passport Office agent “advises” them to raise a payment dispute or ignore our requests for payment. However the truth of the matter is that these government agents are not speaking on behalf of the Passport Office nor are they helping the consumer as all customer accounts that incur a bad debt or non-payment are forwarded to our collections department who will reluctantly forward the matter to a debt collections agency or issue court proceedings if the consumer refuses to voluntarily make a payment. A consumer who enters our collection process pays an average of £160 – £200 with some also receiving a County Court Judgement (CCJ). The amount could have just been £117.60 had the agent not broken Passport Office guidelines and provided this reckless “advice”.
We are doing what we can to help ensure that the customer receives only accurate advice from Passport Office agents as per the HMPO policy and will continue to make formal complaints against any Passport Office agents that we find breach their policy or provide inaccurate or unlawful advice to consumers. As we are committed to ensuring that customers pay no or as little overdue invoice charges as possible and has easy access to qualified consumer advice or free legal advice who provide accurate advice and assistance.

[AlexYates]

Re: *** AlexY v BPS - HEARING 7th May

Perfect thanks. And now I'm ready... Bring it on!

[AlexYates]

Re: *** AlexY v BPS - HEARING 7th May

Bloody he'll. Guess who just walked in? He's only bloody turned up!

[Kati]

Re: *** AlexY v BPS - HEARING 7th May

:tinysmile_aha_t:
Go get him Alex

K xx

[AlexYates]

Re: *** AlexY v BPS - HEARING 7th May

I'm sat alone in the waiting room with Richard Howard. In other words... No witnesses.

He said he turned up because the previous two cases demonstrated that he needs to.

[Kati]

Re: *** AlexY v BPS - HEARING 7th May

:lol:
Is he as smarmy in real life as he seems to be on youtube??

[Nibbler]

Re: *** AlexY v BPS - HEARING 7th May

Desperate, or thinks he can win if given the chance to bullsh!t a judge in person.