Adult Social Care - personal contributions

[gwenlillian]

I have been assisting an elderly lady with her problems around her social care assessment and delivery. For two years now she has had a package, defined and paid for by the local authority. This includes payment for her to retain her independence at home in rented local authority property, with support carers. The total deemed to be required includes a small top up amount being her Personal Contribution. Rather than her paying that amount the local authority deduct it in advance from her payments, thus she receives a nett sum.
Recently she requested a full review of her care needs as she has been hospitalised several times and is now in a wheel chair. There has been no full review for the preceeding two years. The outcome of that review is that her deemed care hours have been reduced and she has been accused of failing to pay her own contributions. The latest is that threats are being issued for debt recovery for the personal contribution element going back two years. I think there is something seriously wrong here and cannot find any definitive answer about these contributions and how they can possibly be a debt to the council. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing please?

[enaid]

Re: Adult Social Care - personal contributions

Hi and welcome,
I am assuming the lady receives Direct Payments?
If this is the case then the finance assessment would decide how much the lady has to contribute herself towards the package. The LA can make a net payment and this should be clearly shown on the assessment report a copy of which the lady should have. It should also state when the next assessment should be roughly, this usually at least every year.
Info on the Fairer Contributions chapter 4 mentions net and gross payments. I think first off try get a copy of the assessments both care and finance that way you would know exactly how the payments have been made.
Direct payments have strict rules and quarterly statements have to be sent to the LA anything untoward should have been picked up almost immediately.

[gwenlillian]

Re: Adult Social Care - personal contributions

hi, thank you. I have the copy assessments and it looks like all the statements have been sent regularly to the LA. A separate bank account is used just for care finances. Seems that the personal contributons are meant to be for things like paying national insurance etc., and she has paid out everything that she is supposed to. However, the LA are saying that because her topping up money doesnt show as going through an account she therefore owes it as a debt. There is confusion about her paying for transport out of that top up too and I think she will need to do some accounts to show the expenditure, e.g., anything that has not been paid out of the account, but clearly been paid anyway, if you see what I mean. It will be very difficult to do this for two years retrospectively and it seems to me to be an acconting issue, but in the meantime she is being threatened with DCAs. I don't understand that as it is her own contribution. Wouldn't the LA have to show they have spent her part of the contribution in order to claim it from her and make it a debt?

[enaid]

Re: Adult Social Care - personal contributions

The 'top up ' as you call it should be paid into the account and usually by standing order so it shows as part of the personal allowance.
If as you said in your first post the money from the LA was a NET amount after the personal contribution has been deducted then that money would not have to be paid into the account, you need to find out if it was a NET amount and that info should be on the financial assessment..

[enaid]

Re: Adult Social Care - personal contributions

Social services can charge for care and support. This means that you may need to make a financial contribution towards your personal budget amount. Your local social services must tell you if you'll need to contribute, and how much, and this will be detailed in your personal budget. Their charges must be in accordance with the law. Usually, the council will subtract any charge you need to pay from the personal budget amount, rather than asking you to pay.

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/pages/direct-payments-personal-budgets.aspx

[gwenlillian]

Re: Adult Social Care - personal contributions

yes, I have double checked that and it is definitely net and I have been reading some information on othe LA websites about managing direct payments and the net payments and they seem to agree with me, in that something that has not been paid to you cannot then be a debt. The lady's LA have now written again and are asking her to pay them over £4000. She is a disable pensioner and veteran. Is it possible that this is just an accounting dispute, e.g., they wanted her to show her personal contribution going into an account and then out again? thanks

[enaid]

Re: Adult Social Care - personal contributions

Have been on a few different council sites looking at the rules re Direct Payments. They all are the same basically and how it works first the personal budget for the care package is assessed, then the finance assessment is done how much you have to pay towards the care package is then worked out.
The LA then puts in the account the NET amount, the NET amount being the amount less what you must contribute. The personal contribution must then also be paid into the account to show there is enough in total to cover the care costs that have been assessed.
If the gross amount is paid in the you will be billed by the LA for the personal contribution.

Following a financial assessment, you may have to put your contribution towards the total amount of your Personal Budget if it is for social care. If you choose to manage your own budget, the local authority may credit your specified bank account net. If they make netpayments you will need to pay your personal contribution into your own personal budget bank account before you pay for any services. This will ensure that you have sufficient money in the account to pay for your assessed requirements that have been agreed on the Support Plan. If the local authority credits you the gross amount into your personal budget bank account, they may periodically send you an invoice which you will have to arrange to pay.

[gwenlillian]

Re: Adult Social Care - personal contributions

many thanks, I will pass this information on to her. So now she is going to be paying in to her care needs account, her own contributions too and something toward what hasn't appeared in there. I am imagining a scenario where she pays in £4000 and it just sits there. The LA have said that she cannot pay any of the contribution to her carer to pay for hours worked, overtime, shopping, or travel etc. This doesnt sound right does it, what is it for then? to comply with some regs by the look of it, and it is still her money for her care but she cannot use it - crazy. She is managing all her care and all her budget, none of it is done by the LA.

[enaid]

Re: Adult Social Care - personal contributions

Everything is worked out around the original care plan until further assessment.
On the original it will state how much care is needed and how much it will cost, they will only pay this amount plus allowance to cover holiday pay etc.
My LA will not allow you to hold any more than 8 weeks money in the account and on the quarterly statement I must send them any monies over this.
The lady should have a contract she signed with everything on re hours and cost etc along with what they will pay and what she must pay.
I really don't know how a reassessment has been left for so long, LAs are usually up to the mark on things like this.
I would give your local Welfare Rights dept a ring see if the can offer any solution, as it stands it looks like she does owe the money but if they have broken the rules re assessments etc you may ahve a fighting chance.

[gwenlillian]

Re: Adult Social Care - personal contributions

Hi, I am finding it quite confusing and I expect this is coming across in my posts too. I think part of the problem is that this lady is nice and friendly and just seems to say yes to everything and signs forms without even reading them. The LA have had various conversations with her over the years but she is vulnerable and has been manouvred in my opinion. I think I will write a letter outlining again what she is unhappy with and another to the finance team regarding the contributions. Seem she will have paid twice in some areas but I can't find any way round that for her. thanks again. PS The annual assessment: am I right in thinking that this should be a full assessment like how far can she walk, can she get out bed without help...

[enaid]

Re: Adult Social Care - personal contributions

Info HERE all about the LA Social care Assessment, once that is done the finance assessment is done and that should cover all the care needs regardless of who pays. It is an assessment for personal care needs only, health issues are treated differently.

The links on there give all info and what to do if you think the care package is wrong.