DWP’s responsibility? Pension Credit overpaid

[justjean]

I would be grateful if someone can help me with this scenario. An elderly person is granted Pension Credit and in due course they accrue savings which take them over the limit for receiving this benefit. The elderly person (by then well into their 80’s and now frail of mind), has not realised this so the benefit continues to be paid.

OK, in theory the DWP should of course be notified of a change of circumstances, but isn’t the DWP partly (if not wholly) responsible for allowing this situation to arise by not periodically re-assessing the finances of such vulnerable people?

My reason for this post is that for some months now we are still in ‘discussion’ with the DWP regarding their claim after my mother’s death (and grant of probate around October last year) that she was receiving benefits that she wasn’t entitled to.
This has held up the distribution of Mum’s estate which cannot take place until the issue is resolved. It has been a complicated process with various documents being passed between Executor and DWP, many phone calls, and no end in sight. Not even an idea of how much the DWP want to reclaim.

It appears that since Mum first signed the application form (not filled in by her) at the age of 82, there has been no follow up or re-assessment by the DWP! So I would just like to know where we stand and if the DWP are responsible in any way.

Thank you to anyone who can advise or give an opinion.

[bluebottle]

Re: DWP’s responsibility? Pension Credit overpaid

Hi Justjean and welcome to LB.

From what you've said, it would be a good idea if you spoke to your local CAB, Claimants' Union or Law Centre about the situation with the DWP.

BB

[justjean]

Re: DWP’s responsibility? Pension Credit overpaid

Hi Justjean and welcome to LB.

From what you've said, it would be a good idea if you spoke to your local CAB, Claimants' Union or Law Centre about the situation with the DWP.

BB

Thank you for your response bluebottle.

I did actually go to my local CAB when we first got involved with the DWP. They were very helpful and provided me with a lot of documentation. However, it is since then that we have found out that there had been no follow up or re-assessment in the ten years after Mum first applied for the Pension Credit.
You can only wonder how often such situations arise! And with my own advancing years it would make me very nervous about claiming any sort of benefit, in case at some stage as I grow older, I might become less able to keep tracks on my finances, thereby falling into the same trap.

[enaid]

Re: DWP’s responsibility? Pension Credit overpaid

Hi,
I have just had a read of this http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/s...iod/#endsearly


If I have read it correctly and apoligies if I have not then the assessment period for someone over 80 is 5yrs unless any of the the situations in the link applies then it will finish early. It also states that changes with capital does not have to be notified in the assessment period.

Just have a read and see if you get the same conclusion and if it helps in any way .
Enaid x
Changes to capital during an assessed income period

Your customer does not have to tell us about changes to their capital during the assessed income period. However, if their capital changes and they think they could be entitled to more Pension Credit, they can tell us and ask for their Pension Credit to be recalculated. If this happens, we will ask for details of all (non-state) pension, annuity income, any equity release payments and capital at that point.
If the total is less than the figure we have been using, their Pension Credit will go up. If the total is the same as, or more than, the figure we have been using, their Pension Credit will stay the same.

[enaid]

Re: DWP’s responsibility? Pension Credit overpaid

I know you said that your mum didn't have a review for 10 yrs, so if that is the case that her capital was ok in the first 5 yrs and they carried on again for another five yrs with the same pension credit then I can not see why those rules do not apply in your mums case. I hope you understand what I am getting at and as I say am sorry if I have got it all wrong.
Enaid x

[justjean]

Re: DWP’s responsibility? Pension Credit overpaid

I know you said that your mum didn't have a review for 10 yrs, so if that is the case that her capital was ok in the first 5 yrs and they carried on again for another five yrs with the same pension credit then I can not see why those rules do not apply in your mums case. I hope you understand what I am getting at and as I say am sorry if I have got it all wrong.
Enaid x

Thank you for this and your previous very helpful reply Enaid.

I have checked out the link you gave and will read it through a couple of times so I can understand it properly. Makes very interesting reading though!
I have also sent the link on to my daughter who is Executor for Mum's will.
Really appreciate your input x

[Bik10]

Re: DWP’s responsibility? Pension Credit overpaid

Actually if I understand you correctly then your late mother's estate does not owe the DWP anything. If your mother was 82 when she claimed Pension Credit and if she did not have savings over the savings limit then she would have been given an assessment period. When pension credit first came in around 2003 most people who were already over 75 were given an assessment period of about 6 years (upto Oct 2009) Around April 2009 because your mother was over 80 the chances are that she would have received a letter from DWP stating that her assessment period has now been made indefinate. This would have meant that from 2003 to when she passed away she was still within an assessment period where she was under no obligation to inform DWP that her savings had gone above the savings limit for enitlement to pension credit. I would suggest that you should contact DWP and enquire about what letters they had sent to your mother regarding her assessment period or see if these two letters are amongst your mother's paperwork.

[labman]

Re: DWP’s responsibility? Pension Credit overpaid

I also read it that you should not have to pay anything. I would be inclined to contact your local MP and get them onside. They seem to have a much bigger punch than us when it comes to the DWP. I would supply them with the extrat Enaid has quoted and also express the distress this is causing by prolonging the issue of your mother's death.

[leclerc]

Re: DWP’s responsibility? Pension Credit overpaid

Here is the Age UK factsheet(from page 25 is probably the bit that you want to read about)
http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Global/Age-C...ril%202012.pdf

And a further one explaining what Bik10 has said(thank you for the information btw as well)
http://www.olderpeopleleeds.info/cli...nefits_fcs.pdf

[justjean]

Re: DWP’s responsibility? Pension Credit overpaid

.... When pension credit first came in around 2003 most people who were already over 75 were given an assessment period of about 6 years (upto Oct 2009) Around April 2009 because your mother was over 80 the chances are that she would have received a letter from DWP stating that her assessment period has now been made indefinate. This would have meant that from 2003 to when she passed away she was still within an assessment period where she was under no obligation to inform DWP that her savings had gone above the savings limit for enitlement to pension credit. ...

Thank you Bik10 for that very helpful information. This is worth looking into once we've thoroughly checked all the dates and figures. There are no letters regarding assessment period amongst my mother's paperwork, and I understand from the executor (my daughter) that the DWP have been unable to produce letters regarding re-assessment dates - which is why we believe this was never undertaken.

[justjean]

Re: DWP’s responsibility? Pension Credit overpaid

Thank you labman. That's another course of action worth considering once we have confirmed facts - which is probably just a question of checking that we haven't missed anything.
It's just unfortunate that my poor daughter, as executor, has been burdened with this task. And I have to say that I don't think many people realise when they agree to act as executor, that they could be faced with this sort of thing! Getting the probate was complicated enough!

[justjean]

Re: DWP’s responsibility? Pension Credit overpaid

Thank you leclerc for those very useful links. Lot's of info there. I shall forward the links to my daughter (executor) who is dealing with all this. Age UK really are a marvellous organisation.

Many thanks to everyone who has given advice and their time. Much appreciated

[Willin']

Re: DWP’s responsibility? Pension Credit overpaid

First of all apologies for resurrrecting this thread. If a new thread should be started for this please let me know.

I am the executor of my late Mother's estate and I am in the same position as the OP. My Mother passed away earlier this year at the age of 88 and she was in receipt of Pension Credit. Her situation with regard to savings was the same as the OP has outlined and, after probate was granted, I received a letter from the DWP indicating that a repayment of contributions MAY be indicated.

I would like to know if this matter was resolved satisfactorily or if any similar cases have been resolved.

As far as I am aware my Mother only signed the form for Pension Credit - I think about 10 years ago - after it was filled in for her by a visitor from the local authority and she didn't have to declare any savings then. A further letter some years later indicated only that if her circumstances had changed she could claim extra credit.

I haven't heard further from the DWP except to indicate that they are gathering data from the relevant department so I would appreciate some help in how to deal with further correspondence

[Ria Townsend]

Re: DWP’s reclaim against estate

I too am in a similar situation.

My Mother aged 80 died on 16/01/2013 leaving no will. Unbeknown to the family she had amassed a small fortune of approximately Ł58,000 in cash in the bank [there is no property involved in the estate]. This only came to light after her death as whilst alive her financial affairs were dealt with by Age concern and DWP. The family can only assume that the money accrued during the latter part of her life, when she had declined both physically and mentally, which meant she lived frugally, stopped eating and going out and this probably allowed her savings to mount. Her frailty of mind, no doubt, meant she would not have even been aware of this state of affairs. Unfortunately, none of us knew of her savings otherwise we could have intervened. Probate was filed and a Grant of Administration has been issued to me, her daughter with beneficiaries being her children. In November 2013, I received a letter from DWP asking me to note there interest in the estate and requesting that we complete a form detailing all her savings etc. I in turn completed the form and returned it to them. I have not heard from them since not even and acknowledgement. The funeral and headstone costs have been paid from the estate, I have filed a notice with the London Gazette regarding possible creditors. The remaining money is undistributed. I appreciate that overpayments, if any will need to be repaid but,

1] Do DWP have an unlimited time to formulate there claim?
2] At what time if any does it become statute barred?
3] As an Administrator am I required to contact them to remind them that their claim against the estate has still not been received?
4] At what point as an Administrator am I no longer responsible for the debt?
5] As an administrator can I claim for reasonable expenses to compensate the time expended on dealing with creditors?
6] If DWP fail to contact me [let's just say they have forgotten to diary their file] How long should I wait before it is safe to distribute the estate?


Any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated.

[wales01man]

Re: DWP’s responsibility? Pension Credit overpaid

I don't think you can claim for you time only expenses you can use a solicitor and the estate pays you are liable to pay the DWP FROM THE ESTATE